Heller's In HD 52
Former USF St Pete CEO Bill Heller jumped into the House District 52 race today, immediately winning the endorsements of most leading Pinellas Democrats. "I've been serving the people of this community for nearly 15 years, and I look forward to representing them in Tallahassee."
Heller, who faces Democrat Liz McCallum in the primary, received endorsements from state Reps. Frank Peterman and Charlie Justice; St Pete city council members James Bennett, Rick Kriseman, Rene Flowers and Leslie Curran; School board member Linda Lerner; and former Education Commissioner and USF President Betty Castor.
The seat being vacated by Republican Frank Farkas is probably the single most competive House seat in Florida. In '04 Bush won it with 52 percent and Betty Castor won it with 55 percent. Heller made it clear he's no rigid partisan when we asked him about having donated to Charlie Crist's gubernatorial campaign.
"I support good people regardless of party affiliation,'' he said. "I've supported Charlie Crist in every campaign he's run."
Heller, who faces Democrat Liz McCallum in the primary, received endorsements from state Reps. Frank Peterman and Charlie Justice; St Pete city council members James Bennett, Rick Kriseman, Rene Flowers and Leslie Curran; School board member Linda Lerner; and former Education Commissioner and USF President Betty Castor.
The seat being vacated by Republican Frank Farkas is probably the single most competive House seat in Florida. In '04 Bush won it with 52 percent and Betty Castor won it with 55 percent. Heller made it clear he's no rigid partisan when we asked him about having donated to Charlie Crist's gubernatorial campaign.
"I support good people regardless of party affiliation,'' he said. "I've supported Charlie Crist in every campaign he's run."
164 Comments:
At 11:24 AM, May 31, 2006, Peter Scorsch said…
I wrote about this on my blog. Certainly, this will be the 60-post blog entry on the Buzz today. Let's get the crew together. Chris Eaton? check! Scott Johni (are you jpublic?), check! Etc.
I like Bill Heller and think he is a nice man, but how is Heller going to walk door-to-door in August? Why do the voters want someone in office who will be 78 at the end of his possible 8 year term?
Of course, Heller's candidacy is being egged on by the same faction that has lost race after race in Pinellas County, so this doesn't surprise me.
Let the flaming begin!
At 11:30 AM, May 31, 2006, feducator said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 11:30 AM, May 31, 2006, Peter Scorsch said…
Because so many state representatives run, win, and only serve two years.
At 11:39 AM, May 31, 2006, Peter Scorsch said…
I don't know which is the bigger bonehead move...Angelo Cappelli donating to Kim Berfield, thereby giving Sean Scott room to maneuver with Frank Farkas...
OR
Charlie Justice endorsing in a state house race, when he is going to need every single vote in the general election.
At 11:51 AM, May 31, 2006, TampaBryan said…
I agree with Peter, bonehead move on Charlie's part. He certainly isn't acting like someone who wants to win this seat, which is really pissing me off because if we get Farkas or Berfield in there we are screwed!
At 11:53 AM, May 31, 2006, krs2 said…
Congratulations to Mr. Heller for getting in the race. Whether he serves for 2 years or 8, we will be well-served. I'm leaving for Pittsburgh to visit family but will be viewing the blog for the next week. I agree with Mr. Schorsch that this will get interesting on here.
At 11:59 AM, May 31, 2006, DerekTNG said…
Peter,
I'll take Charlie Justice for $200.
At 12:04 PM, May 31, 2006, feducator said…
Why is Justice move bone-headed?
I vote pretty much party line and will support him for senate. I was going to vote for Liz but will now vote for Heller.
Are you saying Liz supporters will not support Justice in the General ?
That doesn't make sense for good Democrats.
At 12:09 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
Ok… here it is. I’ve contacted several friends in the Pinellas DEC to find out what’s going on with this race… and boy did they have something to say!
Apparently, a while back, McCallum made some sort of comment about gay people. This pissed off the “Lesbian” and soon to depart County Chair. The Chair has actively pursued a challenger against McCallum ever since… and sees this as one of her (out-going chair) last knives in the back of her less than favorite candidates. Apparently, the outgoing chair is not done either. Plans to attack other local candidates who won’t tow the stonewall agenda or sell-out to the R money… are planned before she leaves. Look out down there; hell hath no wrath like a woman who wants to be a man…
It seems that some of the Pinellas DEC members are tired of their “sell-out to Republican” elected officials and candidates… and have been calling for loyalty.
This true “Two-Party” concept has some feet, and has been making the “Republicrats” in Pinellas, very nervous
Recent endorsements might support this theory too. New and true D’s are nailing them over incumbent and pretend ‘D’s. New and True D’s are trying to bring out the reality that the Party balance in Pinellas is only perceptional in nature, and desire to rebuild the D party on loyalty and true balance-in-power. What a concept huh?
That is why all the “Republicrats” have jumped behind new “Republicrat” who jumped in against McCallum. They’re all trying to keep Sembler and the R boys of Pinellas happy, and writing checks.
From what I was told, a growing stance in Pinellas is… (the problem with
At 12:14 PM, May 31, 2006, DerekTNG said…
Rule number 1: when you have a race, stay out of other people's.
It's akin to Hitler declaring war on Russia – all you do is open another front for yourself.
Why does Charlie Justice need to give people a reason to dislike him? Doesn't he need every vote he can get? Even if McCallum has zero support, Justice at least lost her vote. And her family. Why do that? What good does it do?
Same goes for Rick Kriseman. Losing the teacher's endorsement wasn't bad enough he has to get involved in a primary when he has his own? Again, I don't know Rick. But that shows very, very bad political judgement. Who cares what he thinks about that race? He can’t even vote there. But now he gives people who didn’t care yesterday a reason to help his opponent. Dumb.
What's in the water over there, Peter?
At 12:16 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
Sorry, did'nt copy all of it... but this may also answer you question derektng...
"From what I was told, a growing stance in Pinellas is… (the problem with our Pinellas D Party, is that there are too many Republicans in it.)"
At 12:21 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBryan said…
Actually, it sounds like a nice situation you all have in Pinellas. At least your parties are moderately centered and people don't have a problem supporting across party lines (which I don't see as a problem). In Hillsborough, the R's are just to the right of Atilla the Hun and the D's are such a mess I don't know why anyone even bothers.
At 12:50 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
tampabryan,
“At least your parties are moderately centered and people don't have a problem supporting across party lines”
I would agree if we had a non-partisan process, but we don’t. We operate under a two-party system. R v/s D, blue v/s red, left v/s right… you pick the angle.
It’s about loyalty to the dollar… period. Our current structure has lost understanding of loyalty to their respective Parties, their responsibility to the job, the honor of public service, their duty to this country, and the list goes on… Both R and D’s would sell their mothers to win. “Across the isle, bi-partisan” is a line of crap. Just try to move to make our process non-partisan. What you will get is heavy opposition from the R’s. And why not, they have been winning. They present you with their candidate, and your candidate, who by the way, they own.
The only bi-partisan action going on within our government is corruption, and a true disservice to our democracy.
At 1:46 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBryan said…
jpublic -
I see your point and I totally agree with you. What I was getting at, maybe I didn't say it the right way, is that at least in Pinellas, you have moderates in both parties, in Hillsborough we have extremists and wacko's.
At 2:07 PM, May 31, 2006, midtown moderate said…
As for Charlie Justice's endorsement, doesn't he work with Heller at USF? That may be more about loyalty.
I would agree with Derek about the others.
At 2:14 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
I’m with you tampabryan, but Pinellas isn’t as calm as it seems. Both parties have their wacko’s…
The Pinellas REC is split and has a problem with their lone-wolf leader who endorses in the Primary races, has proudly and publicly exposed the R implants in the Pinellas D Party, and doesn’t fall on the faith based sword.
The Pinellas DEC has a problem with candidates who enter Primary races against the R implants, who don’t kiss the Chair’s ring, and who wont fall on the stonewall sword.
The irony of it all is… while both Parties make the “Moderate, independent thinking, across the isle and bi-partisan” claim to fame stump speech… both refuse to recognize diversity among their respective parties’ voters. If either party members question or disagree with their leaders move, even the party loyalist will be attacked.
It’s political and perceived-power arrogance. The reality is that it’s not our neighbor the R or the D who is messing everything up… it’s the parties, their leaders, and the self-proclaimed politicos who would rather read a poll than walk a street in their neighborhood… to find out what’s really on the voter’s minds and what’s really going on.
At 2:22 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Scorsch said…
Derek,
As much as you like Steve, I blame this all fiasco at the foot of the FDP. Its surrogate here, Kevin King, is a horrible strategist. I could be serving three to five, and I'd still be able to do better than this kid. He's responsible for a terrible loss in the municipal elections, and he's the one ginning up the rest of these folks. Kriseman's endorsement is a horrible, horrible decision. I spoke with a prominent national Democrat at lunch and he said, "I wouldnt be surprised if Gerdes won." Two months ago, who would have said such shit. As for Charlie, he will need every ounce of support to win in the Fall, and he just lost Liz base (which just ran very strong in 2004). The unions have never been strong on Charlie.
By the way, the teachers and the unions are firmly behind Liz...she just picked up $$$ from the Broward teachers, and, thanks to Adam Smith's dare today, picked up more money from the unions. Thanks Adam, she had her best day of fundraising.
At 2:39 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
peter,
"I wouldnt be surprised if Gerdes won."
That really says it in a nutshell. Conventional thinking isn’t working this season and neither party knows what to do about it. Word is, the Pinellas DEC leaders love King. He’s facilitated a great deal of money from Sembler and the R boys to Krisemen’s bank account… what gives… who is he (King) really working for down there?
At 2:46 PM, May 31, 2006, Campaign Manager said…
Rep. Justice is an academic adviser at USF St. Peter and worked with Heller at the university - so we can stop analyzing the political in and outs of his endorsement. This was a decision based on personal knowledge of Heller and on loyalty to a friend and colleague.
At 2:56 PM, May 31, 2006, stpetegy said…
Stop for a minute and be serious!
Bill Heller is so clearly several
cuts above the normal candidate for
State House that it should be a
landslide. If Kevin King played
a role in this, thank you.
At 3:03 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
“This was a decision based on personal knowledge of Heller and on loyalty to a friend and colleague.”
Any chance he considered loyalty to McCallum or the Party, qualifications, integrity, ethics, ability, knowledge… you know little things like that… or was it just about friendship.
Ask Brownie about that one… We’ve had to endure the fallout of cronyism within the current administration, campaign manager… we don’t need to replace a bad incestuous administration with another one. Stop using our public offices for personal payback… write a check out of your own account for that.
At 3:05 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
Stpetegy,
Define… “…the normal candidate..”
if you can...
At 3:08 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Campaign manager:
That so-called loyalty to a Democratic candidate (who has donated time and time again to the GOP) is yet another reason why Charlie Justice won't win. That endorsement will cost him in a race that he can't afford to throw away votes.
At 3:14 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
Well put peter... props for that one.
At 3:32 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBryan said…
Let's see if Heller's loyalty to Charlie is as strong as Charlie's to Heller. Will Heller grasp the gravity of Charlie's endorsement and make sure his people get to the polls to vote for Charlie? It will be interesting, but very often loyalty in politics is a one way street and the only reward for it is usually a good kick in the ass. Charlie should have been loyal to himself first, the voters in Senate district 16 next and Heller somewhere WAY down the list!!
At 3:45 PM, May 31, 2006, Campaign Manager said…
It seems remarkably early (and somewhat suspicious) for so many people (many of them avowed Democrats) to be writing off a popular and well liked representative like Charlie Justice more than five months out from the election. Particularly when people are claiming that the key to his defeat will have been endorsing a strong candidate for the state house.
At 3:48 PM, May 31, 2006, stpetegy said…
Heller will enter the State House
as an expert on the most important
issue - education. He will be
listened to on day one. That is
what makes him an unusual candidate.
At 4:06 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBryan said…
No one is writing him off. For my part, I feel that his will be a very close race. The Tampa part of that senate district is VERY Republican. So much so, that they elected useless Faye Culp over Scott Farrell, a much more qualified candidate. I think Charlie needs to concentrate on his race and not worry about others. If he does everything he can do to win and still loses, so be it. But if he takes calculated risks, such as getting involved in other races, and it hurts him to the point that he loses, I will be pissed because I will have to spend at least four years with either Farkas or Berfield as my senator. I mean I live in senate 16 and the only thing I have heard from Charlie so far is that he is endorsing a candidate in another race.
At 4:09 PM, May 31, 2006, jpublic said…
Doesn’t answer my question stpetegy… No disrespect intended, but your post reads very much like “usual rhetoric” for such and unusual candidate.
I would also caution on the use of the word “expert”. There will be many experts waiting for the opportunity to prove theirs, and challenge your man’s… that’s just ugly politics for them I know, but they are out there.
At 4:11 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBryan said…
stpetgy -
I am not sure how Heller's entire resume reads, but he works in higher education, which is a totally different animal than K-12. Unless he has some K-12 experience, his higher ed experience doesn't translate.
At 5:38 PM, May 31, 2006, Jim Johnson said…
You guys are all forgetting one thing about Charlie Justice...
He works for U.S.F. St Pete - and was working there when Dean Heller was there.
Hard not to expect him to support Heller.
Moreover, I don't think you will see Liz supporters voting for Frank or Kim over Charlie.
The interesting thing with HD 52 (and SD 16 for that matter) will be who the Republican gubernatorial nominee will be - remember that most of (if not all) of HD 52 is in Charlie Crist's old Senate seat (SD 16). If Crist is on the ballot, there might be coattails for the GOP nominees in 52 and 16.
If Gallagher is on the ballot, the Dems will have a better chance.
At 6:36 PM, May 31, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
JPublic said:
"I’ve contacted several friends in the Pinellas DEC to find out what’s going on with this race… and boy did they have something to say!"
Yeah, sounds like you've been talking to the same Ed "I lost every precinct in St. Pete" Helms contingent that haven't fielded a winning candidate in a decade.
Moderate, practical politicians win in Pinellas. The extreme, Kucinich wing of the party, whom you apparently spoke to, keep screaming "party loyalty", while they get embarrassed in election after election. No wonder Carrie got fed up.
Oh, and nice "lesbian" smack coming from the left wing contingent of the the Pinellas Dems. How utterly ignorant.
At 6:53 PM, May 31, 2006, chriseaton said…
Hurrah Heller is in...much to the chagrin of Peter. Heller is a great man and will be a great representative in this district. He hits the ground running. Come on those endorsements are demonstrations of the loyalty he has garnered in this community. Peter really walking does not necessarily win elections and last i saw Bill he seemed perfectly capable of walking. Apparently you and Liz cannot debate the issues and instead want to make his age the issue. I will be enjoying this big win in september to be followed by a win in november!
At 9:32 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBayDem said…
The misinformation and faux-insider garbage on this thread is even deeper than usual, but I'm just going to quash one notion so ridiculous I can't let it pass.
To suggest that Rep. Justice has endangered votes by endorsing against Liz McCallum is asinine. Liz's "base" that "just ran very strong in 2004"? Peter, Peter, Peter. C'MON! In HD 52 in 2004, Liz got 47% of the vote, John Kerry got 48% of the vote and Betty Castor got 55% of the vote. If John Kerry outperformed her, exactly what "base" is it that Liz has? And where has that "base" been for the last six fundraising quarters during which she has failed to raise even $25,000? And if she has such a solid "base," why did every elected Dem in Pinellas except two endorse Heller the day he announced?
Give us a break. And get off the blog and get a job.
At 9:59 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
I just got in and am reading Chris Eaton's post..."Peter really walking does not necessarily win elections ..."
WOW! Do I throw a jab here and say: perhaps thinking like that is how Chris Eaton lost this race twice or is the inanity of that statement apparent enough?
Chris, you are one of the smartest guys in town, but for you to say something like that, all I can say is WOW! I guess I should hope that you advise Bill Heller with your non-walking strategy.
At 10:03 PM, May 31, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wow, Peter Scorsch doling out advice on campaigns, after your well publicized campaign mismanagement and PR meltdown.
What a pair you have, Peter. What a pair!
At 10:08 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Nice, to see you Kevin, I mean Tampabaydem. My job is to clean up the mess you have created in this county. Let's see...you did a bang up job with Darden. God, I was almost in jail and able to beat you there. You did a hell of a job with the Scott Farrell campaign. You were working with him for at least six weeks.
You've done a great job with Carrie. Wait, she's resigning. Now, your pride and joy, the Rick Kriseman campaign just lost the two major endorsements of the season. So instead of a sure win there, now the party has to waste time and money in H-53. You've prioritized H-51 at the expense of H-52, so much so that the unions don't even know who Janet Long is. You have done nothing in north Pinellas. A quote from Candi Jovan: "Who is Kevin King?" Now, you've egged on Bill Heller to run. Brilliant move there. Here's the first mailpiece from the Angelo Cappelli campaign: How do I know that I can do a better job than Bill Heller? --Flip side, insert graphic of Cappelli campaign finance report-- Even Bill Heller donated to me. Wow, you have done a bang up job as field rep. Theey could have put me on house arrest and I would still be able to run the same circles I have running around you for the last four years. You should have the self-respect to resign and get out of the way. You have no skills, and your advice is for crap.
At 10:10 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
PR meltdown??? As long as they spelled my name right.
At 10:15 PM, May 31, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Are you writing from jail now Peter? Is this your "Birmingham letter"?
Did you ever pay back the money you were paid by several campaigns in '04, yet you failed to deliver the agreed upon services? Or are those just rumors, Pete?
And get over your Kevin King obsession. It's disturbing.
At 10:16 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBayDem said…
I'm not Kevin King. Wrong gender, wrong side of the bay. Your childish language and personal attacks, misdirected as they may be, do nothing to answer my essential point. Your client has no base whatsoever, nothing but a little backing from labor, and she won't have that long. No one has noted yet that Bill Heller is actually a member of the FEA and a delegate to the FEA and NEA conventions. I'm betting they'll reevaluate the race in light of "changed dynamics" and Liz's money will dry up.
You and Liz are finally going to learn that when you run around town offending and angering everyone you meet, eventually you mess with the wrong folks.
At 10:17 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBayDem said…
Hey BlueDog, all good points, but you forgot about the check kiting.
At 10:22 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
No, I am not writing from jail. That was such a funny joke, like, in December.
Just a little union support? That K they sent her today, just to let Liz know that she is still their candidate.
And the teachers will not be re-evaluating this race whatsoever. The teachers told Charlie Justice that Heller running was a bad idea.
And Liz is not a client, I play poker for a living now. C'mon!
At 10:27 PM, May 31, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Peter, have a drink and go to bed. Your credibility is slipping away. Heller has broad bipartisan support, is an education legend, and worked to integrate USF St. Pete into the south St. Pete community. The guy is the consumate community person, and has name recognition that you couldn't buy for Liz McCallum if you actually did the job she paid you to do.
At 10:28 PM, May 31, 2006, TampaBayDem said…
Amen, bluedog. Enough said.
At 10:29 PM, May 31, 2006, Omar Lucas said…
damn, someone pass the popcorn and beir.
At 10:34 PM, May 31, 2006, chriseaton said…
I really don't want this bloq to be about Peter or even Kevin. Peter baited us and i admit i played. The reality is Bill Heller is a great candidate and i am proud to support him. i will let others assess why i lost this race in 2002, i have my opinions, but they are not pertinent to this discussion. Heller has been great for this community and i simply believe that the voters will gladly vote for him to represent them! the voters will assess his age and they will also assess his experience and capabilities. The endorsements today were fine, none of those endorsing will lose "liz's base". The 52 seat is now very, very much in play for the Democrats and Angelo knows that and will have to adjust his campaign. Liz I predict will lose and the tone of her campaign will determine whether she has a future in this area or not. Let's ease up on the personal attacks on non-candidates.
At 10:37 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
If we don't get to sixty posts, people are going to think we are slipping.
At 10:38 PM, May 31, 2006, chriseaton said…
i am betting the teachers re-examine their endorsements now that Heller is in the race...
At 10:39 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
By the way, why can't any of you man up and use your own names?
At 10:41 PM, May 31, 2006, chriseaton said…
i am
At 10:42 PM, May 31, 2006, midtown moderate said…
I would question the teacher's credibility if they did not at least consider extending an endorsement to Heller, even if it is a dual endorsement. How do they not consider endorsing a guy who has spent his life in public education.
At 10:45 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
No, they are not. Jade told Liz they were sticking with her.
Chris, you're such a good guy, but you lost because you are a good guy. You're not thinking with the same mean-spiritedness the other side thinks with. I was that other side in '02. I ran the campaign that beat you. We beat you because you were nice. Because you didnt kill Frank after he got beat up by Burns. You gave us a month to recover, for goodness sake. I mean, I had copies of all your mail before it was printed, it was that bad.
I know you mean the best, but in this race, it would be best to be mean. Angelo v. Heller is a win for the R's. EZ.
By the way, do any of Heller's supporters stand on any issues yet? Abortion, crime, insurance, etc. Yes, he was a Dean and is solid on education, but we're treating this guy like Colin Powell, when he could be horrible on issues.
At 10:57 PM, May 31, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Pete, you're sounding clueless. The electorate don't care about abortion, or any of this inside politics crap.
They care about a legislature that is disconnected and aloof. They know Heller and trust him. They don't know McCallum and view her as an outsider. Watch and learn, as Dean Heller becomes Representative Heller, without being "mean", as you suggest. He'll with with kindness, and competence. You may want to look up the latter.
At 11:03 PM, May 31, 2006, observer said…
Peter seems to me that Heller is in better physical shape than Liz...i am basing that on the last time i saw the two them, so I am not sure that Liz would win the walking competition.
At 11:04 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Because the guy who has held this seat for the last eight years has done it with kindness?
BlueDog, you're being naive. Please, please keep thinking that the electorate doesn't care about issues. Please keep thinking that a candidates stance on abortion doesn't matter in a Democratic primary.
At 11:06 PM, May 31, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Im afraid my fellow Democrats, you are thinking about Democrats and not like the opposition. They are drooling, just drooling at the prospect of us putting up a 70 year old male against Cappelli. Especially one that is " supporting Charlie Crist". Jeez, I can't wait to see Davis or Smith campaign for Heller with that comment.
At 11:10 PM, May 31, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Yeah, Farkas, Crist, Berfield, Waters, Sullivan, Fasano etc. have really been hurt by their stand on abortion [extreme sarcasm]
It's that kind of stellar advice that has us with two Countywide elected Dems, and three legislative Dems - all of whom were smart enough to ignore that kind of left wing, wedge issue, foolhardy advice.
It's the Economy, Education and Housing, stupid. Not abortion.
At 8:56 AM, June 01, 2006, TampaBryan said…
blue dog... where do you get the impression that Fasano shares the same view on abortion as all the others you mentioned? I have known Mike for well over 15 years and he has always been Pro-life.
At 10:43 AM, June 01, 2006, jpublic said…
Anyone else notice how the Times story today conveniently omitted pertinent information contained in the website story?
Like…. The many other Republicrats who stabbed Liz in the back… and the blatant support that Heller gives to Crist!!! How are any on these idiots, who have now been exposed as the Republicrats they are, stand next to Smith or Davis.
Try as you may Adam, but your hard work for the protected class in Pinellas “The Rebulicrats” can’t escape the public’s eye forever… The Democratic arm of the Republican Party in Pinellas is coming to an end… soon. That’s the real reason their Party Chair is leaving… get out before you’re thrown out!
Ever wonder what’s wrong with the Democratic Party in Pinellas?… too many damn Republicans in it, that what!
At 10:58 AM, June 01, 2006, observer said…
Ok folks relax...just because Bill Heller gives Charlie Crist $100 does not mean he will not represent his constituents well. $100 is nothing in a governor's race...it is a customary way of maintaining contacts that one might need...but it hardly buys an leverage. Living in St. Pete and giving Charlie a hundred dollars makes complete sense if you are playing the middle ground in order to achieve certain goals. Face it Charlie might win...in fact it is at least a 50/50 shot. So jpublic why beat down a good, qualified man who will represent progressive policies?
At 11:02 AM, June 01, 2006, observer said…
tampabaydem is right....the educators cannot diss Heller. Jade Moore and co. will have no choice but to back away from Liz...the pressure will be too great. And regarding unions...if i were card carrying union member and my leadership was throwing money down the toilet i would be angry. Liz has spent as much as she received...it seems she cannot hold on to money.
At 11:21 AM, June 01, 2006, jpublic said…
observer,
I’m not beating down the man; I’m beating down the hypocrisy of it all.
To prove my point… and to show that we all want to run the middle ground and get along… Ask all elected officials to use their authority to change their respective governances to establish that all elected offices by non-partisan, and all campaign marketing paraphernalia be black and white only. Do it… I dare you to face the ugly reality.
There is only loyalty to the dollar, and the R’s have had that edge over the D’s for quite some time. Therefore, there is loyalty to the R’s… period. And it has nothing whatsoever to do with “qualifications that represent progressive policies.” You are either a D, an R, or and I… pick it, I don’t care… but pick it and stand proud of it.
The conventional thinking that has misdirected our purpose from one of public service for the good of the whole – to one of personal service for the good of the ones who have the wealth – has brought us to the disgraceful state we are in today. From 2-million dollar bribes in California to green ice cream in Louisiana. The loyalty to the dollar has surpassed the loyalty to the people, and the honor of service.
The only “cross party supported” and “bi-partisan” actions going on within our government is corruption, policy shaped by the biggest contributor, and votes going to the highest bidder.
I’m over it, and we should all be “over it”… sell the framing and stump speech BS to someone else… I don’t buy Amway either.
PS… Jade Moore will do exactly as he’s directed. The only think missing from his wardrobe is the collar that goes with his Republican leash… he needs to go too. The declining union enrollment rate supports this.
At 11:21 AM, June 01, 2006, TampaBryan said…
All of this cross party support on Heller's part begs the question.... "Will he pull a Sandy Murman/Sherry McInvale and switch parties once he gets elected?" Of course it would be done "for the good of my constituents, as I will be able to accomplish more in the majority party". I am asking, not being a smartass, I don't know. But as an outsider to this district it seems like a logical question.
At 11:55 AM, June 01, 2006, jpublic said…
tampabryan,
I think you dead-nuts-on there. It is not only a logical question, it’s a probability. Again, in Pinellas there is a Republican Party, and a Democratic Arm of the Republican Party… all working to continue the power hold of the Republican Party in Pinellas.
Party balance in Pinellas is an illusion… Research the current elected Democratic officials, and you’ll find the connection through their campaign funding, votes, and endorsements. It’s not 100% of them, but it’s damn close. This comes from a reliable insider in the Pinellas political mix, verified by my own research.
At 12:30 PM, June 01, 2006, A.L.C. said…
Jesus Christ, I go away on business and you guys light it up.
Suspect motives: Schorsch and JPubic. "The Stonewall Agenda" in bed with "Pinellas Republicrats"? WTF? Get your stories straight... and excuse the puns.
Heller v. Angelo is a good race between two qualified moderates. Voters in 52 will be very satisfied with their choices. Peter, since when have you disparaged the middle ground? Come on, this is personal, and you're letting it get to you.
I really hope Wonkette isn't monitoring this particular post.
At 12:50 PM, June 01, 2006, jpublic said…
a.l.c.!!! How was your trip?,.. Successful I hope.
You’re confused my friend, but understandable… don’t think globally here; think individually first, then big picture.
The misuse of the individual’s position in power to impact the global effort – ultimately based on personal agendas… overridden by the power and control of the dollar… get it?
And Jesus had nothing to do with it… Good to have you back; it’s been a while…:-)
At 1:35 PM, June 01, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Good to see you ALC (if I only knew who you were!?!?) Yeah, I predicted in my first post on this that we'd be at 60 posts. I 've always been good for blog readership.
I don't get the "Stonewall Agenda" reference.
My ulterior motives are right up front. I believe Liz is our best chance to beat Angelo Cappelli. A forty year old community insider vs. a seventy year old community insider? The younger guy wins. Whereas gender would be the trump card if Liz is in the race.
At 4:27 PM, June 01, 2006, feducator said…
Community Insider ? I am not trying to be critical - but I have never heard of Angelo Cappelli.
(Until the blogs about this House race)
At 5:16 PM, June 01, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 5:19 PM, June 01, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
JPublic said: "Research the current elected Democratic officials, and you’ll find the connection through their campaign funding, votes, and endorsements. It’s not 100% of them, but it’s damn close. This comes from a reliable insider in the Pinellas political mix, verified by my own research."
So....Democrats shouldn't a) win endorsements b)receive campaign contributions, and c)earn votes.
Thanks a lot JPublic. That retarded thinking is the reason why winning Democrats (or Repulicrats as you call them) largely ignore the Yellow Dog Dean/Kucinich wing of the party - or the "losers" as they are known by the voting public.
At 5:47 PM, June 01, 2006, observer said…
i concur with blue dog dlc : jpublic's thinking is the reason we dems lose elections. Mr. Scorsch's attacking a good candidate (who has just entered the race) is another example of why Dems often lose (nasty fighting within the ranks). In the end Heller wins the primary and in a competitive race with Capelli Heller becomes Rep. Heller. And all the others in the race will soon be forgotten by the blogs and by the press.
At 7:02 PM, June 01, 2006, midtown moderate said…
Amen, bluedog. The jpublic wing of the Dems hardly has a winning track record to run on.
At 11:58 PM, June 01, 2006, MattSilver said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 10:51 AM, June 02, 2006, jpublic said…
blue dog dlc – observer – midtown moderate…
You have all missed the point, while making it at the same time.
“It is not those who cry for loyalty who are the problem… the reason they cry for loyalty is where you will find the problem.”
McCallum will win, because she’s earned it and worked hard for it… not because she bought it, or sold her soul for it.
At 11:10 AM, June 02, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Cappelli played a key role in Baker's campaign, he's a VP at SunTrust, was on the board at St. Anthony's, his wife is goddaughter to Mel Sembler. That's pretty much the definition of community insider.
At 11:26 AM, June 02, 2006, jpublic said…
No, no, no Peter… He’s a fine, upstanding and loyal regular Joe Democrat! That’s why he’s on the ‘D’ ticket and backed by so many other fine, upstanding and loyal regular Joe Democrats!… who use the radical few within the party, to paint the whole Party… and therefore justify their distancing for the purpose of aligning themselves with the ‘R’ Party and the $.
I wonder where the taxpayers and ‘D’ voters come into this?… oh yeah, a sound-bite and billboard will take care of them.
By-the-by… we’re way over 60 posts now… good call ;-)~
At 2:00 PM, June 02, 2006, observer said…
Jpublic if working hard was enough then many different folks would have been elected. And by the way you are completely out of it if you think that McCallum has earned this? her affiliation with Peter Scorsch should be enough to question her ethics and her ability to assess people. It is well known within Democratic circles that McCallum will do just about anything to win. She loses in September and community is better off. Besides it will take a moderate to win back 52 and with Eaton out Heller is the Dems best shot.
At 2:52 PM, June 02, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 2:55 PM, June 02, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
If past affiliation with me precluded someone from running for office, you'd lose half the statewide candidates and most of the people running in Tampa Bay.
But, observer, you stay in the shadows and hide behind your anonymity.
And yes, we're gonna get to eighty posts. I actually bet the over-under on this one.
At 3:30 PM, June 02, 2006, fortunefox said…
My vote is for Heller, and I will also vote for Justice. IMO NOT voting for Justice because of Heller would be a true bonehead move. The Justice race is one of the most important in the state, if not the most important. Any true Democrat should vote for Charlie regardless of any circumstance, our state senate is too important to be playing these revenge games. Grow up people.
At 3:51 PM, June 02, 2006, jpublic said…
“…if working hard was enough then many different folks would have been elected.
Conventional thinking observer… you misjudged the pulse this cycle… like many have.
“…her affiliation with Peter Scorsch should be enough to question her ethics and her ability to assess people.”
I don’t really know Peter’s history so I can’t really address that.
“…McCallum will do just about anything to win.”
So what you’re saying is… she’s a politician?
“…it will take a moderate to win back 52 and with Eaton out Heller is the Dems best shot.”
Get with the program sport… you’re missing the boat on this. I’m about done with this topic so you can have the last word if you wish… I’ll have mine in September.
At 3:53 PM, June 02, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
THIS IS A COMPLETE JOKE--AS IF PETER SCORSCH CAN TALK--LETS SEE...YOU STOLE ALL YOUR CLIENTS MONEY--DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FOR THEM--OH--AND HERES A SHOCKER--YOU CAN NOT EVEN MANAGE YOUR OWN BANK ACCOUNT---YET YOU TRY TO RUN YOUR OWN POLITICAL CONSULTING FIRM--AND LETS NOT FORGET--THAT YOU ADMITTED TO BEING A COKE HEAD--(FOR ALL OF YOU THAT MIGHT THINK I'M TALKING ABOUT SODA--I'M TALKING ABOUT COCAINE)--SO WITH THIS SAID YOU HAVE NO ROOM TO EVEN THINK ABOUT TALKING OR CRITIZING KEVIN KING--AS FAR AS SOMEONE RUNNING AGAISNT LIZ MCCALLUM--THANK GOD--LITTLE MS. PIGGY AND HER WACK JOB OF A CREW NEED A REALITY CHECK--ITS ABOUT TIME THAT CREDIBILTY CAME TO THIS RACE.
LIZ MCCALLUM IS BACK TRACKING BECAUSE OF THE NASTY THINGS SHE SPOKE ABOUT A FELLOW DEMOCRAT WHO JUMPED INTO THAT RACE--SHE OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF HERSELF FOR THE WORDS SHE SPOKE ABOUT CHRIS EATON AND MOVE BACK TO CALIFORNIA--NOONE LIKES HER HERE IN THIS TOWN EXCEPT FOR ED HELM AND HIS MINIONS.
NOW AS FAR AS MR. SCORSCH DOING A BETTER JOB THAN KEVIN KING FROM HOUSE ARREST--I FIND THIS EVEN MORE COMICAL--THE DARDEN RICE CAMPAIGN WAS THE BEST CAMPAIGN THIS COUNTY HAS SEEN IN AWHILE--AND ITS THANKS TO KEVIN AND THE HARD WORKING VOLUNTEERRS THAT SPENT THE MAJORITY OF THEIR TIME GETTING HER NAME OUT AGAISNT THE FINICIAL ODDS THAT THEY FACED.
OUR STATE FIELD REP.--KEVIN KING--HAS A GOOD HEAD ON HIS SHOULDERS AND HAS THE SENSE TO SEE THAT CANDI JOVAN (A CANDIDATE IN NORTH COUNTY)--WHICH WHOM BY THE WAY--THOUGHT SHE WAS RUNNING FOR CONGRESS AND HAD ALL HER LITERATURE PRINTED THAT WAY--WHICH IN REALITY SHES RUNNING FOR A STATE REP. SEAT--WOW--THATS A GOOD CANDIDATE--ONE OF THE "TRUE DEMOCRATS" YOU KEEP REFERING TO--I REALLY WANT TO SEE SOMEONE LIKE THAT IN TALLAHASSEE.
KEVIN KING WAS HIRED BY THE FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR HIS POSITION OF LEADERSHIP-- BECAUSE HE KNOWS WHO IS VIABLE AND WHO IS NOT.
At 4:09 PM, June 02, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
Charlie Justice--the Tampa Bay area is LUCKY to have someone as good as Charlie to be running in this race.
He endorsed Bill Heller--wow thats a big deal--You people(Peter Scorsch)--need to get a life--perhaps a sober one.
I'm amazed that your sticking up for Liz considering she FIRED you--but who really can blame her--I don't know anyone who wants to be associated with you.
At 4:20 PM, June 02, 2006, jpublic said…
WOW… I guess I now know a bit more about Peter’s history… thanks fly…
I still like McCallum in September, we’ll see… based on this blog though, it’s bound to be a good one to track.
At 5:23 PM, June 02, 2006, MattSilver said…
As someone who is voting for Angelo Cappelli I would direct you to his website for his full and accurate credentials. www.voteforangelo.com
At 5:32 PM, June 02, 2006, fortunefox said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 7:45 PM, June 02, 2006, Campaign Manager said…
Peter, I fear that the ultimate point of recent posts is that your credibility has been pretty much smashed, both because of legal/ethical lapses and party switching.
My final thoughts on this are -
- Kevin King is doing a thankless job for not much money
- Liz McCallum had her chance in 2004
- Charlie Justice has served with honor in the state house and will, if elected, do the same in the Senate; his endorsement of Heller almost certainly came less from political calculation than a belief in Heller's candidacy
At 11:22 PM, June 02, 2006, Wally said…
I think something important should be cleared up here: namely, that the "remarks" McCallum was accused of have been blown absolutely out of context and any proportion by a few people who are less than fond of her, to put it VERY mildly.
The remarks McCallum made were made in PRIVATE CONVERSATION, and were not at all an indictment of homosexuality in general or anyone specifically being gay. What she said to her conversant (one person) was merely that she thought it was a pretty sorry thing that Darden Rice (a candidate for whom I'm proud to have voted) had taken hits and been sabotaged so badly over her sexuality and that it was unfortunate but inevitable that Republicans would pull the same card against other candidates for elected office in Pinellas County. These remarks, which were PRIVATE CONVERSATION, got struck out into the rumor mill and blown out of any perspective and nuance which they had possessed.
I know Liz McCallum and I know well that she is no homophobe and would absolutely not try to sabotage anyone over their sexuality. Not only has she worked in the past for some of the most progressive Democrats in America but she is also a personal friend of San Francisco's courageous mayor, Gavin Newsom. Pretty odd thing for a woman who is supposedly so shallow that she would SHOOT HER OWN FOOT by making such accusations about another.
Let's be reasonable in this discussion, and whatever you feel about Ms McCallum, Mr Cappelli or Mr Heller - and I do not know the latter two, personally or otherwise, so I won't comment on them in that way - everyone should try to stick to the truth. And we should try not to make horrible accusations about them simply because of political axes that we think need grinding, as it seems with many on this board.
At 12:21 AM, June 03, 2006, ErikLibby said…
Having read the long list of comments made regarding the race for House Dist 52, I think a spirited primary will be good visibility for both Heller and Liz.
The local dems need to get behind all dem candidates to get someone elected.
Note that no political offices are promised to anyone.
Also note that most of the candidates mentioned like Rick Kriseman, Calvin Harris do not make any regular appearances at monhtly DEC meetings, however they make an appearance when campaign season begins to ask for help. They are nowhere to be seen ffor most of the time but they expect that the working people of the party will line up behind an incumbent like sheep.
Sounds more like the lock step antics of Republicans who blindly support each other with $, and expect complete loyalty from REC members. Thank God the DEMS are truly the party of inclusion.
So why not keep the comments clean and let's really work to get behind the winners of September primary.
At 1:17 AM, June 03, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
FlyGirlz:
First of all, great nickname. What are you 12?
I never stole a dime from any client. And all I did for my clients was help them win. No one -- no consultant that is, save perhaps Latvala -- has won more municipal and state legislative races in Pinellas over the last eight years than I have. That's the credibility I have and you, nor Kevin King do.
As for what Liz said; let's all be honest: she told Carrie Wadlinger, et al that it would be difficult for a gay candidate to beat a Republican. I hate that that is true, but it is the sad reality. I like Chris Eaton. I met with Chris last December to urge him to run for something. Part of the reason why I am a Democrat is because I believe we are the party that will change people's attitudes about race, sexual orientation, etc. Still, the political reality is what it is. If you disagree with me about that, all the more power to you. I hope I am wrong. The sooner I am wrong about that, the better.
I was never on house arrest, nor any other kind of arrest, don't be retarded.
Actually, the Darden Rice campaign was, strategically, the worst campaign ran on the municipal level that I have seen from a credible candidate. Darden could have easily -- easily -- won that campaign, but the campaign's strategy was just wrong. I blame Kevin for that. I met with Darden. I wanted to work for her because of my environmental clients. My problems would not have impacted her race, in fact, she would have gotten my advice and won. Plain and simple. She had a great volunteer base, but had no strategic vision. She snatched that loss from the jaws of victory (she outraised Earnest Williams, so you clearly don't know what you are talking about with the finances).
I've never referred to anyone as a true Democrat. All I know is Kevin told several people how he had been working with Candi, and Candi told these people she didn't know who he was. That may have changed. It still doesn't change the fact about Kevin;s mismanagement of H-51, 52 or 53.
Kevin King was hired by the party operatives that have somehow managed to increasingly lose House seats even after they already lost a tidal wave of seats. They are Frank Terrafirma's bitches.
These are the same fools that ran Chris Eaton's campaign, Margo Fischer's campaign, etc. They have been getting worked for years, and they are setting themselves for the same working they've gotten before. Hell, they can't even finish off a cake walk like Kriseman's race.
I guess I missed that memo where Liz fired me???
But if youd like to bring that memo by my house at 1527 Fifth Street North, I'd love -- just love -- to chat with you about anything you'd like.
Now for JPublic...yes, I flamed out. That is my history. But when any other Democrat in this county wins their first congressional race, statewide initiative, Pollie, Charlie or National Addy award, please let me know. Because as of right now, I'm the only one with that kind of hardware.
Campaign Manager -- you and I have never agreed. My credibility is what is. I am all these things and more. That's why I am not in the game anymore.
But I've been right about Pinellas politics for almost ten years, and Ill be right again this year.
I've gotta indulge my vices. See you all in the morning.
At 8:42 AM, June 03, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
ErikLibby said...
Note that no political offices are promised to anyone. Also note that most of the candidates mentioned like Rick Kriseman, Calvin Harris do not make any regular appearances at monhtly DEC meetings, however they make an appearance when campaign season begins to ask for help. They are nowhere to be seen ffor most of the time but they expect that the working people of the party will line up behind an incumbent like sheep.
Have you BEEN to a DEC meeting lately? Why the hell would Kriseman and Harris show up to DEC meetings, when many of the folks who show up at that meeting ar far-left radicals who talk the talk, but are loathe to write a check, or help any candidate who isn't some left winger or anti-government hack like Norm Roche (Calvin Harris' opponent)?
Calvin Harris is a great example of how the DEC Progressives (left wingers, Helm-ites, whatever you want to call them) fail to support - and actually work to defeat - successful Democrats. The DEC Vice Chair Arlin Briley has the DEC working to get petition cards signed for Roche (under the pretense that Harris could also utilize that help), knowing damn well that Harris already has the $$$ to qualify, and that Briley and the Progressive's goal is to oust the moderate Harris, as the Helms's contigent has been screaming for since Rick Baker's reelection.
The DEC was once irrelevant, but was making a great comeback under Carrie Wadlinger's leadership. With Carrie's exit (partly because of the incessant turmoil cause by the Helms/Briley contingent), the DEC is now is slipping back into irrelevance.
Expect to see Dem candidates at the Greater Pinellas Democratic Club - which actually manages to write checks to candidates and provide exposure to supporters who actually help, instead of the "lost in the 60's" hippies of the DEC. When the DEC learns how to actually SUPPORT winning Democrats like Harris, Peterman and Kriseman, then you'll see more elected Dems showing up at DEC meetings. Until that happens - and I doubt that it will under Helms-puppet Briley - attending DEC meetings is a waste of time for elected (and electable) Democratic candidates.
At 11:09 AM, June 03, 2006, chriseaton said…
Well now that this has hit 90 messages i suppose i will add my two cents. First i must come to the defense of many of those under attack in this blog. i had no idea that a great person like Bill Heller would illicit such nasty attacks, but it has. Usually such attacks indicate some sort of fear attached to the announcement. Certainly if Bill was not a very, very viable candidate there would not be the immediate attacks on him and those advising him. This happened to me as well. I barely entered the race and wham i was attacked. Interesting as i spent my off year raising money for Castor and writing a couple of big checks to Kerry. I walked and put in lots of energy to see Democrats win. Rick Kriseman did the same...he work tirelessly for John Kerry and raised a significant amount of money. And yet he is attacked by Democrats? I have never had the respect of the local nsiders of the party and when they do write checks they are small and minimal. So why play to them? yet if you check my positions i am very much in synch with Democratic positions.
Kevin King does not deserve the attacks launched at him in this bloq. he is a dedicated Democrat that wants to see Democrats elected. He has often worked for no money and where there has been money the hours have exceeded the compensation. Overall his campaigns have been marked with lots and lots of volunteers...ground swells of support for his candidate.
Carrie was a excellent chair of the party. Yet one can only take the hassles and attacks so long when one is giving of one;s time. Few if any elected officials take the local DEC serious. Most understand you cannot be elected with their help you must build a coalition of support within your district. It is insulting that some Dems are out to get Calvin Harris. Do i agree with him all the time, no, but i am confident that as a Democrat he will listen to those of us in his party.
Peter i won't list my issues with you, but the record stands and a little humility might be the dose the doctor recommends. You have talent, but you jeopardize your talent by errors and at times by your tecniques. i know exactly why you had my mailings before they were sent and those are ethics that i will not support.
In the end Bill Heller is a great candidate. Angelo Capelli will give him a run for his money. i commend both of them for their sacrifice of time and energy to make the community a better place. i regret that my schedule did not permit me to do this year.
At 12:12 PM, June 03, 2006, stpetedem said…
Blue Dog...you are forgetting that Tom Steck is also in the race for DEC Chair. Instead of the Far Left faction having power...it will stay as is if Steck wins. Please don't group all DEC members as the far left radical hippies...there are still some of us left who support Charlie, Calvin, and Rick, and who realize the reality of getting Dems elected. Those of us will be voting and campaigning for Tom Steck.
At 12:20 PM, June 03, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
As for you Peter...The fact that your denying the truth about your past history with candidates(getting fired-stealing their money-etc.)--I won't even go there---THE ARTICLE WRITTEN ABOUT YOU IN THE TIMES MONTHS AGO SPEAKS FOR IT SELF AND RUINS YOUR CREDIBILITY--IF YOUR NOT FAMILIAR WITH IT--DO AN ARCHIVE SEARCH WITH THE TIMES--it will pull right up--You should check it out:)--I am done blogging with you--it is a waste of time as you make no positive contribution to any political party--You used to be a republican before you burned ALL your bridges.
Chris Eaton- You would have been a wonderful candidate--it is this counties loss that you will not be our next state rep.--Hope to see you run in the future.
And on a quick side note--Calvin Harris is an effective democratic elected official--He has the respect of the commission and is able to get important projects accomplished because he focuses on what is right for the county not petty issues--And it is ridiculous that Norm Rouche is wasting the DEC's time and energy to run against a proven democrat.
At 12:56 PM, June 03, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
I'm really looking for a 100 posts. I mean, what would this blog do without me egging you all on. There could be a post about God Endorses Davis and it'd get 15 posts. We should be proud.
Chris: I am not attacking Bill Heller. He's a great guy, no doubt. I would support him if he beat Liz.
I am attacking those who saw fit to recruit a candidate in this race. They have had a losing strategy for more than a decade and this is just another one of those moves. Like Darden, you would likely be in office if you had gotten better advice.
Instead, there are people on this board and in the Party, that cannot deal with dissent. Not dissent for dissent's sake, as Ed Helm's group does. But open, honest criticism.
Of course Kevin is really a decent guy. I know that. I hate criticizing. But I know what he says about me. He thinks he is right. "I know these races better than anyone, plain and simple" is what he has said. And I'm like, no you don't because youve never won them. Your point that the campaigns he has worked on having a lot of volunteers is a mark of strong candidates. It is the strategy and the execution that have lacked. I have always said that to Kevin: you can't be a manager and a consultant at the same time, because sometimes the manager has to say No, and sometimes the consultant has to fire the manager for saying No.
As for Heller v. Angelo v. McCallum. Put it in the eyes of the voter: do you vote for the younger or older version of the same guy. We need a female candidate who is strong on women's issues to draw a contrast.
And I know you know I know you know how I got that flier. -- Inter arma silent leges
As for Carrie, I wholeheartedly supported her, right up until the point she let the job get to her so much that it clouded her vision. Please explain to me how she is going to get what she wants -- "electing real Democrats" -- by resigning. And, Jesus Christ, she should have the sack to resign now and get out of the way. Staying on until July 15 is paralyzing the local party. She has, in this one act, undone all of the good she may have done. What kind of party chair resigns the frekin' week of qualifying???
As for you FlyGirlz, get a new nickname that does not mirror the immaturity of your posts, learn something about Pinellas politics and Ill deal with you then. Undoubtedly, you are one of the freaks that sits around at The Globe bemoaning the loss of this or that great candidate. Boo hoo hoo!
At 2:05 PM, June 03, 2006, Wally said…
The reason Democrats lose - which some of the "Blue Dogs" and especially Democratic Leadership Council-types seem to forget - is that the Party keeps nominating candidates simply for the sake of getting one elected. It's not that we're too far to the left. It's that our candidates are so watered-down under the pretence of giving them "a chance" that people are left with nothing to hold-onto and end up being even more turned off before. The affiliation is more important than any sort of common beliefs, and that cynicism is seen (and rejected) by the public. Republicans, though some are perhaps crazy, are at least honest and so get elected.
I personally have absolutely no problem with running Democrats against other "Democrats" who have not proven to be strong on the issues we care about as a party. What so many have forgotten is how much better it is to have a Republican in office whose actions you can oppose rather than some fictional "Democrat" you must politely applaud while privately bemoaning their lack of coherence and vision. These elections will start to be competitive when there are Democrats running who can make an honest distinction between themselves and their opponents.
I notice also that people like blue dog_dlc rail against the "far-left" (by the way, what is this, the 1980s? Commies are gone, folks) putting up candidates to challenge Democrats in competitive primaries but seem to have no problem when their own particular faction does the same, i.e. against McCallum. It's a power struggle, plain and simple. I'd like to be able to say it's one between the left- and the centrist-wings of the party, but really it's just a fight between those who have vision and those who have none. As a party activist I'm tired of swallowing it for the Hellers and Krisemans and Harrises of this County. Say what you want about Liz McCallum or Norm Roche or Chuck Gerdes or even Ed Helm - they give you something, honestly and unambiguously, to accept or reject right on the face of it. Far better thing, that, than to be unable to distinguish your candidate with their opponent when reading their profiles side-by-side. I've done it too long, and we all have, and that's why this party is seeing so much discontent.
At 2:41 PM, June 03, 2006, stpetedem said…
Peter, you keep commenting on Flygrlz name and insinuate that she doesn't know about politics...but frankly her posts have been insightful and she seems to know quite a bit about the local political scene...but her opinion does differ from yours...you speak of allowing dissent yet you oondemn her for doing so and insult her based on her name...now thats immature.
Chris Eaton...you are one in a million, one of the best candidates who have ever run in this town, a truly decent human being...and Kevin King is a great guy too.
The irony of this entire thing is that people are critizing the fact that Heller (and people that prompted him to run) is running against McCallum...yet they don't mention that the other leftist faction got Gerdes to run against Kreisman, and Roche to run agains Harris...both exception candidates who should win. Calvin Harris is highly effective in his position and cares about the youth and future of our county. The work he has done with the Youth Advisory Council is exemplary. Kriesman has done so much for the Arts and for St. Pete in general, as well as human rights. Neither canddidate should really have a dem opponent, yet they do....so fair is fair...stop whining about Heller going against McCallum.
At 2:44 PM, June 03, 2006, Wally said…
stpetedem, blue dog_dlc just mentioned AT LENGTH about Harris and Roche as well as Gerdes and Kriseman, which I commented on in my post right before yours. There's not much irony if we've been over it a thousand times already.
And while I don't disagree about what you say re. flygirlz24, her first post was pretty shrill and hectoring against Mr Schorsch. Let's call a spade a spade.
At 3:21 PM, June 03, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
StPeteDem, because she is not talking about dissent. She has attacked me personally, and has, I believe, sent me emails, in which she attacks me worse. If she wants to attack me, she should put her name by her comments and stand by them.
At 3:29 PM, June 03, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
StPeteDem -- there's also a big difference between H-53, H-52 and that county commission seat. Liz McCallum is the moderate in her seat, whereas Gerdes and Roche are the left wing's candidates. Liz McCallum, by facing Frank the last time, deserved a clean shot at the open seat this time. But the people who ran the losing House races in 98, 00, 02, and 04 are still in charge and won't do what is necessary to win H-52.
I spoke with an old, old friend of Angelo's yesterday and he said the same thing I said, they are drooling at Heller's candidacy. Cappelli will beat Heller because there is little real difference between the two. Heller donated to Cappelli! There is a tagline right there.
But because Liz -- allegedly -- said something about a candidate's sexual orientation, she's been abandonded.
Well, when Angelo creams Heller, and the article reads about how Democrats won nationally, even statewide, yet the GOP hung onto its control of the Florida House, especially in Pinellas County, you will be sorry.
At 5:06 PM, June 03, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wally said:
As a party activist I'm tired of swallowing it for the Hellers and Krisemans and Harrises of this County. Say what you want about Liz McCallum or Norm Roche or Chuck Gerdes or even Ed Helm - they give you something, honestly and unambiguously, to accept or reject right on the face of it. Far better thing, that, than to be unable to distinguish your candidate with their opponent when reading their profiles side-by-side.
The biggest red herring of the DLC hating left - that centrist Dems don't stand for anything. The truth is that centrist Democrats are still Dems - and stand for 80% of what even Progressives stand for. Look at Bill Clinton - the model centrist Dem and one of the founders of the DLC. He stood for welfare reform, strong law enforcement, and a fiscally responsible budget philosophy - issues that the left wingers are loathe to embrace - yet those are the very reasons the Clinton was able to capture the vital center and win two Presidential elections.
So spare me Wally, it's not that DLCers don't stand for anything - it's just that they don't pass your litmus test for what a Democrat should be.
You know, kinda like Carrie didn't meet the litmus test of the hypocrites in the left wing of the party. So much for the "big tent", huh?
At 6:51 PM, June 03, 2006, Wally said…
I take your point, blue dog, but perhaps you've not noticed that EVERYONE is for a strong law enforcement. You will perhaps pitch next that DLC candidates are just like the average Democrat in that they believe sunshine is good for the environment.
People vote - when they vote on issues - on difference, not on similarity. When forced to do without because both candidates are functionally the same (namely by following the DLC tactic of simply agreeing with your opponent and refusing to take any positions beside the vaguest of sentiments), people will turn to the candidate that seems the most forceful and sincere about what concrete notions they DO express. And that's not a DLC Democrat, by and large. Bill Clinton got away with it because his opponents had the charisma of dead possums. The rest of those who have tried to copy it - and a NUMBER of local candidates come to mind, including some in this election - end up failing miserably.
However, when the left-wing of the party try to put candidates with practical sentiments and concrete statements that differ from their opponents into the race, types such as yourself accuse us of sabotaging the party. Why - for taking a stand? If you really think Democrats and Republicans have so much in common then the party should just disband, because Republicans control more offices and have more money and as such can pursue those issues better.
As for some sort of "litmus test," this is an accusation that's bandied carelessly and foolishly quite a bit. I for one know few, myself included, who really have one. I don't vote solely on abortion, or civil rights, or gay rights, or even the environment. I have a holistic view of candidates that I think a lot of voters share. And when developing that view they - we - are not helped by Democrats who look and sound exactly the same as Republicans. I offer as a specific example the City Council and County Commission, including and ESPECIALLY Mr Kriseman, who have merely acted as a rubber stamp for Rick Baker, ignoring concerns such as that of the rampant and reckless condo development downtown which is fundamentally altering the culture of our community for the worse.
And I echo what Mr Scorsch said about Liz: she is hardly the left-wing extremist she is made out to be. Neither are Mr Gerdes or Mr Roche, who are respected members of their communities and do not walk around carrying a little red book and preaching of revolution. If anything's a red herring, it's this fear of a "leftist plot" simply because some in the local party don't particularly want to shuffle yes-men from the city and the county to Tallahassee. There are plenty men there from both parties to cover that base.
At 12:12 AM, June 04, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wally said:
I offer as a specific example the City Council and County Commission, including and ESPECIALLY Mr Kriseman, who have merely acted as a rubber stamp for Rick Baker, ignoring concerns such as that of the rampant and reckless condo development downtown which is fundamentally altering the culture of our community for the worse.
Well, this is a great example of the radical left making it up as you go. Rick Kriseman LED the drive for expanding the Human Rights ordinance, and gathered enough support to override a Baker veto. What in the hell are you talking about?
As for the downtown condos - they represent part of a residential element that makes downtown work. Just ask Pam Iorio how much she'd like to have people actually LIVING in downtown Tampa. It's the hardest thing to do, and Kriseman has been part of a Council that has facilitated downtown development, while maintaining the public's access to the waterfront -and in fact ADDING a new downtown waterfront park.
FACTS are pesky things Wally. Especially when they blow holes in your bogus arguments against great Democrats like Rick Kriseman.
But tell me, Wally, what are your specific policy differences with local Democratic leaders like Rick Kriseman, Bill Heller, Calvin Harris and Commission Chair Ken Welch?
And if those differences exist (as opposed to your simple jealousy/hatred of electable centrist Dems), would you rather have these Dems join the Republican party, and have NO elected Dems in Pinellas? You can't have it both ways, Wally.
At 4:25 AM, June 04, 2006, stpetedem said…
Wally, whether someone on this board already made reference to the point I made does not make it any less ironic. Irony is irony and the leftist word on the street is "How can Heller run against McCallum?" ...that is still ironic to me considering the facts...You may call McCallum a centrist and that's fine, but perhaps some people would like another option. Why are you so worried about Heller unless you realize that he is a true threat to McCallum? I say let the scenario play out...may the better man/woman win.
At 11:55 AM, June 04, 2006, civil justice said…
Liz wasted the political ground she gained during the Farkas race. She made a few critical missteps like divide her donor base rather than unite it and to hire Peter to drain her account. She has not recovered from those poor decisions. This will continue to plague her in the quest for the almighty campaign dollar. She should consider dropping out so the party can focus on beating the Republician challenger.
At 12:10 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
So you finally make an appearance Scott? You tight jawed dork. I cna just see you clenching your teeth while you type!
I haven't worked on Liz campaign in seventh months, and so whatever money she has spent, it didn't line my pockets.
Scott you are such a dork, no one needs you on this board.
At 1:06 PM, June 04, 2006, A.L.C. said…
The number of comments on this post is fairly absurd, and a little hard to manage, but it has sparked a good debate about what the PCDP should be.
Pinellas County has a unique political beat that owes to its Midwestern, Eisenhower-Republican heritage. I agree with Wally that when voters look at candidates individually, as they tend to do with the Commission and competitive legislative races, they look first for vision. Blue Dog DLC is spot on when he says that moderates do indeed have a vision, but that it is not the vision some leftists in the party want to see. Some leftists like Ed Helm have a vision, too.
The key difference is that the moderate vision is constructive. The thing that allows Ken Welch (to use the example of someone less centrist than Harris, but still in the party's moderate wing) to work so well with John Morroni on the County Commission is not a shared ideological heritage, but a constructive, wonkish (some might say accountant's) attitude that aims to get things done, ideology aside. This doesn't mean they don't disagree on the Commission. They come from two different ideological traditions and approach issues from different angles on any given issue, and this diversity of backgrounds is also constructive.
The Ed Helm vision is not constructive. It is simply the product of a better-educated speaker, a better-formed version of the anti-capitalist, anti-wealth vitriol that his supporters spout. Ask Ed Helm why he opposes condo development downtown? The Times sort of did, but didn't really get a coherent answer. Still we can infer from it the gist of the thing: "Helm said he's the candidate for those who don't feel included in the downtown development boom. He's for the people who don't view the creation of more luxury condominiums as a positive step.... And they see a mayor that is focused on high-rise development and hanging out with rich people." Tell us, Ed, who is that? Judging by your November results, not too many folks.
It's pretty clear; Helm and his friends oppose the condo development because to them it reeks not of exclusion, but of affluence. God forbid.
Those condos provide a large number of service sector jobs directly and indirectly sponsor the entire resident- and pedestrian- driven downtown economic revitalization that Clearwater and Tampa would love to have. Improving the county economy is a constructive goal. Railing against condo development or other signs of an affluent area is not.
The choice here is simple. The moderate Dems who have been elected in recent years have a constructive vision, and play an important role in the local political system by providing some ideological diversity tempered by a willingness to work with others from different backgrounds. Not only is this good for the County, but it is also electable. On the other side of things, you have an intemperate group of leftists that loathes anything right of Henry Wallace, refuses to work constructively with others, and has a very juvenile vision of society that can usually be remedied by a few econ classes at SPC.
Who the hell do you think I'm going to vote for in Democratic primaries?
At 1:21 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
ALC - Well said.
Two points: isn't it always a small minority that starts bitching about something, is accused of being out of touch, then later vindicated for being the first to call for the change the majority has come to embrace.
I disagree with Ed Helm on downtown development, and, as you said, so did a lot of people. But is there a chance he might be right down the road. I ate lunch at the Pier the other day, and looking back at the city, there was 8 tall cranes working on various projects. That is a little much.
As for who you might vote for...Liz is not in this far-left cabal you speak of. She's as centrist as they come, perhaps more so than a candidate that comes from academia.
At 2:06 PM, June 04, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
Ok Peter---First of all I'm not 12--but I did make the screenname when I was in High School--A LONG TIME AGO--I am much older now--and I have more Political clout in this county --than you ever will again--And I have never emailed you personally--Nor do I have your personal email address--I'm not personally atacking you--I'm just stating the facts--You are good at what you do--politicaly speaking--but you blew it and have missed your chance to follow your dream--Its actually quite a shame.
But I will not stand for anyone calling me immature and acusing me of not knowing what I speak truley about.
PLEASE SEE THE ARTICLE BELOW THAT WAS WRITTEN IN THE ST. PETERSBURG TIMES ON SCHORSCH IN DECEMBER OF 2005:
Copyright Times Publishing Co. Dec 5, 2005
At 29, Peter Schorsch was already a major player in the Tampa Bay political scene.
University of South Florida political science professor Susan MacManus calls him one of the brightest students she's ever had.
After working for a high-profile Republican consulting firm, Schorsch launched his own company, which drew clients throughout the region. His work won national awards. He created a blog that received more than 3,000 hits a day and was widely read in local political circles.
But behind the impressive resume was a young man with big problems.
Schorsch has been chased by creditors and the IRS. His car has been repossessed, and he has been evicted from an apartment. Police have busted him multiple times for driving with a suspended license.
For years, he was able to hide that side of his life. But no longer.
A candidate he helped during the last City Council election filed criminal charges last month, contending Schorsch took thousands of dollars and failed to deliver services. Other candidates say they've been ripped off, too.
He's also been charged with 16 counts of writing bad checks for cash at Publix.
For the first time, Schorsch's problems are threatening to overtake his life.
"I'm irresponsible," Schorsch said. "I've never claimed otherwise. I don't know what's going to happen to me, but it's been a heck of a ride."
As a child, Schorsch recalls, he told teachers he aspired to become "supreme emperor of the Earth."
He was active in student government at Northeast High. Michelle Dudley, then Northeast's student government adviser, said Schorsch was the most eloquent student she'd ever known. But she was startled by his ethical views.
Schorsch grew up in a middle-class home near Shore Acres. His father was a waiter, his mother a nurse. They divorced in 1984. Dudley said he resented the money and privilege of his classmates, many of whom drove BMWs or Saabs.
"He had this term, 'entrepreneurial vigilantism,' " she said. "He thought the rich had so much to give and there were people who needed it. I tried to tell him it wasn't up to him to decide who was deserving and who wasn't."
After graduating in 1994, Schorsch headed to Florida State University. He participated in campus government and held several internships with state politicians, bouncing between Tallahassee and St. Petersburg.
MacManus helped Schorsch get an internship at the Florida Institute of Government. He got an A in her class at USF.
"I remember him as very gifted in terms of discussing ads and strategies," MacManus said. "He was very good at finding angles on politics that would resonate with young people."
MacManus also helped him get a job with the James Madison Institute, a conservative think tank, where he wrote articles on subjects such as school safety and gambling.
J. Stanley Marshall, founding chairman of the institute, said Schorsch was a good writer but had problems meeting deadlines. "I emphasized to Peter there was more to being a successful writer than being bright and creative," he said. "There's a discipline involved, too."
With MacManus' recommendation, Schorsch left the institute to work for the Mallard Group in Clearwater, which represents some high- profile Pinellas County Republicans.
He worked on campaigns for state Rep. Frank Farkas, R-St. Petersburg; state Rep. Leslie Waters, R-Seminole; and state Sen. Dennis Jones, R-Treasure Island, among others.
Schorsch shared in several national awards from the American Association of Political Consultants while at Mallard, including a first and a second place for state legislative campaign radio ads.
But while his professional life was taking off, his personal life was in disarray.
In 1998, a judge signed an order evicting him from an apartment at 11150 4th St. N for failing to pay $575 in rent.
In July 1998, he was caught driving on a suspended license by University of South Florida police, according to Florida Department of Law Enforcement records.
He was charged twice more for driving with a suspended license, in January and March of 2001.
Also that year, he was sued by a holding company because he wasn't making car payments. His car, a 1995 Ford Contour, was repossessed.
"Peter is a brilliant guy," said Farkas, who worked with Schorsch on his 2000 campaign for state representative. "He's good at what he does. But his personal life has always been a wreck."
It didn't take long for his situation to turn sour at the Mallard Group.
In 2003, Schorsch had a falling out with the firm's founder and principal, Jack Hebert. The disagreement stemmed at least partly from Schorsch's decision to date Hebert's high school daughter, Schorsch said.
Hebert declined to comment.
Schorsch launched a political consulting firm, PS Creative.
His first major client was Citizens for a New Waterfront Park, a collection of St. Petersburg grass roots activists who wanted to replace Albert Whitted Airport with a 60-acre park.
The initiative was soundly rejected by voters, 73 to 27 percent. Tim Clemmons, one of the coalition's leaders, said Schorsch did a good job, working far more than he was paid to do.
Schorsch won another national award for designing the initiative's Web site.
But Schorsch's next clients weren't as pleased.
"Let's just say he took me for a ride, and I wouldn't rehire him," said Andy Steingold, who hired Schorsch this year during his successful bid for the Safety Harbor City Commission.
Neil Brickfield, a former commissioner who helped Steingold's campaign, said Schorsch was paid to print and mail thousands of brochures that never materialized. "It was the closest to a professional shakedown that I've ever come into contact with," Brickfield said.
Still, Schorsch's career seemed to be on an upswing by summer. He launched his blog, saintpetersblog1.blogspot.com. Four St. Petersburg City Council candidates wanted him to work on their campaigns.
But by the Nov. 8 election, two candidates had fired him and a third filed criminal charges with St. Petersburg police.
Leslie Curran, who was running in District 4, said she fired him after a vendor called to complain the check he received for her campaign signs bounced. Curran said she sent one of her workers to Schorsch's house to collect the money, which he gave her.
A few weeks later, council member Earnest Williams said, he fired Schorsch, too. He said Schorsch never delivered two mail pieces he was paid to do and that he didn't send out absentee ballots. Williams estimated Schorsch still owes him $3,000.
Eve Joy, a lawyer and political newcomer who ran for the District 2 seat, contacted police shortly after the election. She declined to comment, but police spokesman Bill Proffitt confirmed police were investigating her claim that Schorsch took money and failed to deliver services.
Schorsch called the situation a "misunderstanding" and admitted he's not very good with money. Joy paid him nearly $7,000, according to campaign finance reports. He estimated $3,000 is in dispute.
"Honestly, I just lost track of things," Schorsch said. "If I screwed things up, I'll just have to fix it."
Schorsch faces more criminal trouble. He is due in court Dec. 12 on accusations he wrote 16 bad checks to Publix for cash this year. Each was for $76. (Publix limits customers writing personal checks for cash to $75, plus a $1 fee, a spokeswoman said.)
The charge, obtaining property in exchange for worthless checks, is a first-degree misdemeanor with a maximum sentence of a year in jail for each count.
Schorsch said he wrote the checks to cover debts he incurred gambling on basketball during March Madness. On his blog, he downplayed the seriousness of the charge.
"I am not an elected official, I've never asked for the public trust, so if I drink too much, eat too much, snort too much, fight too much . . . or do too much of whatever else, then I do that at my own peril," Schorsch wrote.
But some of his trademark bluster is gone. He's posted only once on his blog in the past two weeks, a marked change from his typical once or twice a day.
Despite his early promise, Schorsch said his political career is finished - at least for now.
"I've kind of resigned myself that my life's dream isn't going to be what it was anyway," he said. "When the next step comes along for me, I'll be ready."
I THINK THIS SHOULD CLEAR THINGS UP--YOU COULD OF BEEN GREAT BUT YOU MISSED THE BOAT--DO NOT EVER CRITICIZE ME AGAIN.
At 2:18 PM, June 04, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
If you are a player in the political scene in Pinellas--You know the candidates that you want to volunteer for and work hard for--everyone should do just that--all these candidates are in the race because they believe in making a diffrence--and that is a noteable and honorable thing to do--It should be very interesting come September 2006--:)
At 2:37 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Were you hot in high school? I hope you aren't too much older now. Maybe 19, 20, just about the right age for me.
OK, well, it says you made that screen name in June of 2006, so how did I know you weren't an idiot for using that screen name. Are you member of Salt n Pepa or something? If you have so much clout, don't hide behind a screen name.
Anyway, do you really think anyone on this board hasn't read that article? Do you think anyone on this board didn't know about most of that stuff before the article. Do you think that you re-posting that article is going to have a different opinion.
I'm proud of who I am and who I am before God. At least I can man up and say where I made mistakes. I've enjoyed a better, more exciting life in my short time on this earth than most people dream of.
Please! Come up with something new
to say and stop being so boring.
At 2:44 PM, June 04, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
Sorry that I had to put out all your dirty laundry peter--and no I'm not 19 or 20--and Yes I was hot in high school and I'm even hotter now--but that is neither here nor there.
When you go around saying that I have no clue what I'm talking about--I have to rebuttle--and make my point very clear--
I'm sure you have lived an exciting life--More power to you--
I am done blogging on this beautiful day--I have way more important things to do--like having an exciting life--just like you peter:)
And no I'm not changing my screen name--
At 3:08 PM, June 04, 2006, Wally said…
To reply to stpetedem first, you are absolutely right when you say that Heller is a threat to Liz - he is her opponent, after all. However what concerns me more is the threat to a useful Democratic victory in this race (I'll talk a bit more about "useful" victories in a moment). From what I understand, Heller is himself extremely ambivalent about his own candidacy (why else would he have waited until the last moment to declare?) and does not have the drive necessary to win. Plus, I don't know what he stands for, and neither does anyone else: we've never heard of him before. So he's prominent in the community? That means being prominent amongst a group of 200-300 socialites who have far less power than they like to think. This "prominence" will not save him from his Republican challenger, even if it does get him a victory over Liz. But you are definitely right about one thing: this is democracy, and things will play out one way or the other. And I agree that the better person should win. I just differ with you over who I think it is. :)
Onto bluedog_dlc's comments. If you notice on the Human Rights Ordinance Rick Kriseman voted to include sexual orientation (gays and lesbians) but specifically BLOCKED inclusion for gender identity and expression (transgenders and transsexuals). Why do this? Well, he is a rising star in the DLC wing of the Party - and while appreciating that to vote against the human rights ordinance would turn the entire party against him and probably sink his chances of holding local office, it's useful to be able to say down the road that he took a chance to stand up to "the gay agenda." In other words, he sided with the popular underdog and ignored the ones that are less vocal but still need protection.
There's a specific policy difference, based on the facts of Kriseman's voting record. And those facts are tricky things, when they blow holes in a bad candidate's attempt to paint himself as a crusader for equality when instead he cares for little more than splitting the political difference.
Now, beyond that, you make a couple of accusations that are rather unfair. For one, I would not consider myself a member of the "radical left," but that's splitting hairs. More importantly, I don't have some irrational hatred of jealousy of Democrats who are centrist or electable (contrary to what you might think, those two are not synonymous) - though I am not surprised a DLC type would levy such a silly accusation, given that appealing to heuristics and doublespeak has been that group's modus operandi as they lack substantive policy differences to exploit. I, as a Democrat, am just tired of being associated with those people. When Democrat friends of mine (be they liberal or moderate) ask me how he party manages to screw up with these empty shirts over and over again, I have no good answer.
I've mentioned the issue with Kriseman, and the general support for development offered by Democrats such as he and Messrs Harris and Welch (Bill Heller, not having supported or opposed anything at all yet, excepted of course). But my deeper difference is exactly the "go-along, get-along" mentality that alc remarks upon. Quite frankly I would rather have less get done in the name of a few principled stands than that Democratic officeholders constantly make bad deals that gain nothing but a saved face. Principled stands have been notably lacking amongst the Democrats in countywide offices.
alc puts very eloquently the fact that what we have here is competing visions. However, he mischaracterizes it as a destructive one versus a constructive one. I would characterize the difference more as a passive one (the Kriseman approach) versus an active one (which is the Ed Helm approach). When everyone functionally agrees you get quite a lot done - hence Kriseman, Welch &c. But that also means bargaining away your objections on a lot of issues about the future of our community, and development is one of them.
Now, I understand that development is popular and that Baker's victory last year (beyond his vast fundraising lead, positive image control and general lack of knowledge about what he actually does) was a repudiation of anti-development positions. However this does not mean that sentiment within the Democratic party is anti-development, nor should we attempt to purge that sentiment. Our community is changing in ways that it is very difficult to notice when confronted by it on a daily basis.
To whit: I've been away at school in Washington most of the past year (itself a city no stranger to the pressures of development and redevelopment), and having come back this summer I was absolutely shocked at the amount of changes I saw. Places that were once simply land - not PARKS, not NATURE PRESERVES, but just land - are now filled with gaudy, unattractive townhouses. Local businesses and Mom-and-pops were gone, and supplanted by Publix, Walmart and Walgreens. And the Gulf beaches? Forget it.
I don't like that. And I think that in the future more and more denizens of this city will come to agree. The problem is that most, like myself, have not lived here so long and certainly not long enough to notice or care. But that may not be so in the future, and I think it's a noble task to try to preserve some of the character that St. Petersburg possessed in a bygone time - the character that Central Avenue used to embody (and which parts still do).
Does this mean all development is evil? No, of course not. But I demand moderation, which the City Council, County Commission and ESPECIALLY the Mayor have not offered. The have given carte blanche to developers for the past five years (up to waiving impact reports for new developments, at least until election season) and have not taken the lead in preserving that which truly makes the city: not money, but culture. Mel Sembler can never buy out the latter. But he's certainly trying, and no one's stopping them.
So to reply to bluedog_dlc's final point: yes, I would rather not have a single elected Democrat in this county than have Democrats who will allow themselves, and by extension me, to be coopted into that development agenda. But fortunately I don't have to make that choice. There are good Democrats, like Liz McCallum, and Ed Helm, and Norm Roche, and Charlie Gerdes - respected members of the community - who are willing to fight to save that piece of local life. They are willing to assert themselves with an active agenda, even if it means losing, rather than lie there, passively, and rack up victories in pursuit of all the wrong causes.
No one wants to kick the moderates out of the party - that is stupid. Nor do we want them ignored. We just want someone who will actually take a few stands and listen to Democrats' - and local peoples' - concerns, rather than let themselves be seduced by big money and easy going. This is the cause that the PCDEC needs to get involved in, and this is what I hope Democrats will fight for in the primaries and in November.
Does that address some of your points?
At 3:15 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 3:27 PM, June 04, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
I am enjoying the sun:)-but thank god for wireless internet-
Once again-I am not sure why you keep saying that I do not know anything or as you would put it "shit"- I know ALOT about this county and its politics--I may be basing information on you by one article--but they are still facts--If you don't recall the article did point out alot of negatives about you but also some positive--I would like to stop this back and forth mess--We are at 114 comments--and this is wasted energy--I've got a tan to work on--you have painting--and the rest of these people want nothing to do with our little quarrel:)-Have a great day Peter--
At 3:35 PM, June 04, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wally said:
Does that address some of your points?
No, not really. The gist of your policy differences with Krisman is that he supported Gays and Lesbians, but not Transgendered people - conveniently omitting that he directly took on Mayor Baker, which of course contradicts your assertion that Kriseman is a blind Baker loyalist. You lumped Harris and Welch in with your "Development" rant - as if they should impose a moratorium on development of affordable housing, schools and such.
Perhaps if your weren't in Washington so much, you'd know that Pinellas is 98% developed, and what you're seeing is redevelopment. No County in the state has set aside so much park land and green space as Pinellas/St. Petersburg. It wouldn't matter who was in office, the County is fully developed and in redevelopment mode.
So your "development" argument is baseless, leaving the only policy differnce that you have with Kriseman and other Pinellas moderates is the transgender issue.
Sounds like a platform to lose every precinct in an election. Oh yeah, your "model democrat" Ed Helm has already done that.
Cmon Wally, there have to be some substantive policy issues (other than your winning transgender issue) that cause you to rail against Krisemans and the Pinellas moderates Dems. Let's hear them.
At 3:38 PM, June 04, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
Nicely put Blue Dog:)
At 3:43 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Do you have tan lines FlyGirl? I love tanlines!
At 3:45 PM, June 04, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Thanks FlyGirlz24, and ignore Peter - he can't rest until he's made a complete jackass of himself for the day. ;)
At 3:50 PM, June 04, 2006, A.L.C. said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 3:53 PM, June 04, 2006, flygirlz24 said…
I love how everyone keeps refering me to the "young" one--I'm 28--no highschool girls here:)
At 4:31 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
ALC -- what lesson? The one upside to being back behind the bar is the bevy of young hostesses that work. Nineteen with tan lines. What's better?
At 7:22 PM, June 04, 2006, Wally said…
blue_dog - Forgive me; I was worried that I was biting off more than I could chew by trying to answer three people at once. I'll try to be briefer and clearer.
You suggest that the jist of my difference with Kriseman on the HRO is its inclusivity. It is not. My difference is that by playing upon a razor-thin distinction (i.e. that between sexual orientation and gender identity) Kriseman attempted to play political poker with an issue - equal rights - on which I expect better from a Democrat. In this case it is not WHAT he did so much as what it tells me ABOUT him: namely, that he does not really care about equal rights. This artificial distinction merely serves to cover his political bases rather than to strike any sort of blow for equality. Pretty shoddy, for someone who "took the lead" on the issue.
Your point forgets that I never suggested that Kriseman is a mindless Baker loyalist; I did say several times that he is far closer to Baker than I like, as I am (shockingly) not a fan of our mayor. The fact that Kriseman took the stand does not satisfy me regardless given the fact that it was done disingenuously; I would not, in fact, be surprised if Kriseman colluded with the Mayor to set it up. A Republican, after all, loses nothing by being seen to oppose the "gay agenda," and a Democrat loses nothing by being seen to "promote equality."
You suggest that I "lumped Harris and Welch in on [my] development rant" (very civil, by the way) - how could I not, sitting on the County Commission as they do? The County Commission is intimately involved with the development issue, especially as many of this development is occurring in unincorporated areas. You then go on to suggest that to not allow development would be tantamount to stealing money for schools and affordable housing without elaborating at all. I can in any case hardly see how the one is tied in with the other: I am unaware of exactly how much development brings to this county but am confident that it is not the substantial windfall its advocates always suggest (without, naturally, offering a figure).
I take your point about development/redevelopment - bearing in mind, of course, that whatever percent of all statistics used rhetorically are made up - but it does not change my argument about our local culture. Replacing a block of two-story houses with a fifty-story condominium fundamentally changes the area. I could not help but notice that you ignored my entire argument in that regard, but I am not particularly surprised. "Moderate" Democrats seem to focus on little more than how much money something will make versus how much it will cost, disregarding any value that doesn't come with a dollar sign attached.
So regardless of whether the issue is development or redevelopment, my critiques remain. Redevelopment indeed worsens local environmental pressures (which are not helped very much by Mr Kriseman's park), because redevelopment is singularly geared to putting more people in a single space (unless, of course, that space becomes a parking lot, which SURELY enriches the quality of life for us all). This of course requires the county to spend more providing basic services in addition to degrading environmental quality.
I also mentioned specifically the waiving of impact statements for downtown developments, which persisted right up until the last election, and to which Mr Kriseman did not protest. That all goes into the development/gentrification issue.
You make two references at the end of your post towards "winning" that I find ironic, since it so clearly illustrates the mentality of Democrats such as yourself: put someone into office with a D next to their name, regardless of what they believe. I don't care if the transgender issue (or the development issue, which I have defended above) is a "winner" - I at least want a Democrat who is going to be faithful to those positions. I have nothing personally to say against Messrs Harris and Welch besides that I have been unimpressed with the performance of the County Commission in general where development is concerned, and I have no problem holding them partly responsible. Mr Kriseman I have met, and I was singularly unimpressed with him upon meeting him (though I did have the good fortune to be in a grip-and-grin picture with he and several other people - oh, joy). That does not change my more substantive critiques of him, but there that is. I hardly think I RAILED against the man or moderate Democrats in general; I merely do not care for him or his policies.
I end by asking YOU, bluedog, why do you like him so much? Is there a reason besides the fact that you perceive him as electable?
At 7:52 PM, June 04, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wally said:
"Replacing a block of two-story houses with a fifty-story condominium fundamentally changes the area. "
Where did this happen? Not in St. Petersburg that I know of. Or Pinellas, for that matter. Specifics, please.
What IS happening is the turnover of rental apartements - like Coquina Key - into pricey condos. But the City Council has no say in the matter (it's not a zoning issue), so being the fair left winger that you are, you won't hold that against Kriseman, I'm sure.
"So regardless of whether the issue is development or redevelopment, my critiques remain. "
Yes, they remain terribly off point. Kriseman isn't ushering in a new wave of development, because St. Petersburg is ALREADY built out. He hasn't approved the razing of houses for condos, either.
I have nothing personally to say against Messrs Harris and Welch besides that I have been unimpressed with the performance of the County Commission in general where development is concerned"
Care to offer any specifics? This isn't like your "Kriseman razed houses for condos" innaccuracy, is it? What developments did they approve that you disagreed with and why?
I end by asking YOU, bluedog, why do you like him so much? Is there a reason besides the fact that you perceive him as electable?
Because the DLC is the future of the Democratic party, and they speak to the issues that most Americans care about. Look at the performance of the country under Clinton - responsible tax policy, rationale foreign policy, record economic growth, and a budget surplus. Evan Bayh and Mark Warner are other great examples of DLC governance and leadership. What's not to like?
I would ask you, why do you like Mcallum (new to the area, homophobic statements), Gerdes (no political accomplishments), Helm (lost every precinct in St. Pete and renewed the internal DEC war), etc.?
And finally, you still haven't named any POLICIES that you disagree with Kriseman, and DLC types in general about - other than the fact that they manage to get elected and govern (transexuals and redevelopment nothwithstanding).
You see, it's not that Clinton, Warner, Bayh, Kriseman and Co. change their views to win votes - to the contrary, they win votes because the people agree with their views.
At 9:44 PM, June 04, 2006, krs2 said…
wow I missed a lot. Where to begin? I thought this was about mr. Heller? I speak from a unique position: I like Mr. Kriseman and Mr. Gerdes and I follow council meetings and I know Mr. Gerdes through baseball and I keep an eye on my local Democratic Party. Here are some unbiased facts:
1. Why would a Councilmember include transgender into a Human Rights Ordinance at the risk of a veto from the Mayor? Mr. Kriseman and those who voted for HRO probably accomplished all they could accomplish. Baby steps if you will.
2. Mr. Gerdes is a nice man. But he has zero political experience and in my 19 years of on-again, off-again volunteering for Democratic events, I've NEVER SEEN HIM. I mean no disrespect to Mr. Gerdes but he is a Johnny Come Lately. Why did he not care about Democratic values before he filed?
3. It seems moderate Democrats get elected and Helm Democrats don't. Would you rather have Mr. Kriseman or 8 Bill Fosters?
Again, just my thoughts - via Pittsburgh I might add!
At 9:50 PM, June 04, 2006, Wally said…
The condominiums in downtown St. Pete have been built atop what were formerly blocks of houses (along with businesses, in the case of Beach Drive).
Since I did not raise the issue of rental properties, I'll let that go as-is.
I never suggested Kriseman destroyed houses to build condos or even was part of it. I merely suggested that this was the pattern of redevelopment. Please do not put words in my mouth.
You know, you have been challenging me to offer specifics at length and when I do so, criticizing them. However you have not done so yourself. When I asked you why you supported Risk Kriseman, you told me why you liked Bill Clinton. Perhaps I am wrong-headed on development, but even a "left-winger" like me is not silly enough to confuse the two. I ask again: why do YOU like RICK KRISEMAN?
And again, I HAVE named specific disagreements that I have with Kriseman in terms of his actions on the City Council (for the THIRD time, I'll offer the case of the impact permits). Yet you continue to dodge my questions, and to avoid the issues I raise over Kriseman's credibility and trustworthiness in general (merely seen through the LENS of the HRO, which you yourself brought up).
And I have already debunked the issue about Liz McCallum's "homophobic statements," in my very first post in fact, so I will not bother to repeat the story again. In fact, I feel like I've already covered quite a bit of ground.
At first I was rather worried that I had not explained myself well-enough. Not I'm more worried that you're not bothering to actually read my replies. You are asking me for specifics on policy but refusing to discuss that yourself. Case in point, when you ask about Gerdes, McCallum and Helm (who deserves respect for challenging Baker when the "DLC" wing would have preferred to pretend that race didn't exist, forcing him in the process to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars that would have gone towards defeating Democrats in other raises) you do not raise substantive issues but rather character critiques. Again, just goes to show the DLC wing cares about little more than image and electability rather than ability to actually effect change.
Regardless, this thread was about Bill Heller, and at 125 posts has reached a healthy endpoint indeed. I'd like to read any final remarks but this is my last word on the issues above, as I feel I've addressed them quite thoroughly already.
At 9:53 PM, June 04, 2006, krs2 said…
wow I missed a lot. Where to begin? I thought this was about mr. Heller? I speak from a unique position: I like Mr. Kriseman and Mr. Gerdes and I follow council meetings and I know Mr. Gerdes through baseball and I keep an eye on my local Democratic Party. Here are some unbiased facts:
1. Why would a Councilmember include transgender into a Human Rights Ordinance at the risk of a veto from the Mayor? Mr. Kriseman and those who voted for HRO probably accomplished all they could accomplish. Baby steps if you will.
2. Mr. Gerdes is a nice man. But he has zero political experience and in my 19 years of on-again, off-again volunteering for Democratic events, I've NEVER SEEN HIM. I mean no disrespect to Mr. Gerdes but he is a Johnny Come Lately. Why did he not care about Democratic values before he filed?
3. It seems moderate Democrats get elected and Helm Democrats don't. Would you rather have Mr. Kriseman or 8 Bill Fosters?
Again, just my thoughts - via Pittsburgh I might add!
At 9:56 PM, June 04, 2006, Wally said…
krs2, I thought Baker DID veto it and Kriseman secured an override? At least that's how bluedog described it; I'm not terribly familiar with the incident?
Truth is moderates have not done terribly much better than more liberal Democrats. The factors are inevitably much more complex. Liz McCallum lost to Frank Farkas in 2004 - but so did Chris Eaton in 2002. Darden Rice is acknowledged by all to have run an excellent race, but still lost, as did more moderate Democrats in last year's election. One might even suggest that liberal versus moderate positions do not enter into that much play; local politics is just that, overall. In fact, environment and development issues are the only ones I can immediately think of that apply locally as much as nationally (if you take that to include housing and relief for the poor inclusively).
At 9:59 PM, June 04, 2006, Wally said…
I should just like to add (I hope somewhat uncontroversially - but so much for that final word!) that in the end Democrats are Democrats. I may vote for Gerdes in the primary but in the general election, if Kriseman's the candidate, he'll get my vote. Both wings of this party have their role: moderates to keep us from drifting too far left, and liberals to keep us from being too close to the center. So bluedog, we're not so different at the end of the day.
At least not more different than we both are with the PCRP. :)
At 10:33 PM, June 04, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wally said:
I'd like to read any final remarks but this is my last word on the issues above, as I feel I've addressed them quite thoroughly already.
No, you've just managed to talk in circles with vague accusations and misstatements of fact.
The condominiums in downtown St. Pete have been built atop what were formerly blocks of houses (along with businesses, in the case of Beach Drive).
Uhh, you said "Replacing a block of two-story houses with a fifty-story condominium fundamentally changes the area." Are you telling me that there is a 50 story condo in downtown St Pete built where "blocks of houses" were? FALSE! There isn't a 50 story condo in all of Pinellas, and the downtown condos are being built on primarily commercial, not residential parcels. FACT Wally, FACTS.
Not I'm more worried that you're not bothering to actually read my replies. You are asking me for specifics on policy but refusing to discuss that yourself.
That's because I asked you the policy question first, and you danced around the question, and the best you came up with is transexual protections and imaginary 50 story condos in St. Pete.
(for the THIRD time, I'll offer the case of the impact permits).
What "impact permits"? Are you talking about transportation impact fees, which are governed by a county, not a city, ordinance? You know Wally, you're turning out to be very Helm-like - long on misinformation, and short on facts.
At 10:40 PM, June 04, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wally said:
Truth is moderates have not done terribly much better than more liberal Democrats.
Let's look, shall we?
Moderate Elected Dems
1) Rick Kriseman
2) Jamie Bennett
3) Rene Flowers
4) Earnest Williams
5) Calvin Harris
6) Ken Welch
7) Frank Peterman
8) Charlie Justice
9) Jim Davis
10)Mary Brown
11)Les Miller
Liberal Elected Dems
1) Linda Lerner
Feel free to fill in any that I've missed, but the pattern is obvious - Moderate Dems have a winning message - by a huge margin.
At 11:11 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Wally you're full of shit saying that McCallum is homophobic. Plain and simple, that's BS.
At 11:15 PM, June 04, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Blue Dog DLC said:
Truth is moderates have not done terribly much better than more liberal Democrats.
Let's look, shall we?
Moderate Elected Dems
1) Rick Kriseman
2) Jamie Bennett
3) Rene Flowers
4) Earnest Williams
5) Calvin Harris
6) Ken Welch
7) Frank Peterman
8) Charlie Justice
9) Jim Davis
10)Mary Brown
11)Les Miller
Wow, if the Democratic Party doesn't slow down, we might control all of St. Petersburg south of Central Avenue!
At 12:49 AM, June 05, 2006, Wally said…
Peter: I was the first one to DEBUNK the idea that Liz was homophobic. And then I did it two more times. You're looking for bluedog on that one.
And bluedog: Whoa. Foul on the play. You can accuse me of being evasive while ONCE AGAIN dodging the questions I ask you in return completely (at least I offered answers, no matter how inadequate you felt they were). That's fine that your 'misstatements' were more like misinterpretations of what I saying. Fifty stories was a figure of speech (I'm not sitting with the blueprints in front of me here) and impact reports were obviously of the environmental sort, but that's fine. I'll let a sleeping dog lie.
But this list of yours? How bogus is that! That little idea has more holes in it than the Berlin Wall - after it came down.
First, including School Board people? I think not. I point out that such races are NONPARTISAN. Granted, so is the mayoral election, just to name one. But unlike the Mayor's office, the School Board does not deal with a whole lot in the way of partisan issues, UNLIKE the Mayor's office. People on the School Board don't have a whole lot of chance to express ideologies, so don't even pull that.
Plus, I'm not convinced someone like Mary Brown could be considered moderate (or even would consider herself moderate, but I don't know her outside of having met her once or twice). Further, though it's nice that you tossed me a bone in the form of Linda Lerner, I would not call her a liberal (nor am I sure she would agree).
Plus, some of the people you put on the "moderate" side don't exactly fit there. Frank Peterman is a moderate? Really? I don't buy it. Neither do I think you can just drop Les Miller in your camp, nor Rene Flowers, nor Earnest Williams or even Jamie Bennett. They're not liberal as such but neither are they moderate - center-left, perhaps. As for Jim Davis, he is only a "Pinellas politician" in a small part of the county, most of whose residents would vote for a yellow dog before they'd vote for a Republican. We certainly have little to do with getting him elected and re-elected.
Doesn't matter, though - your WHOLE list is subjective, so you can put whoever you want where. I wish I lived in that world.
The point can also be made that the leadership of the local party, despite its rank and file, has been "moderate" for quite some time. These leaders have preferred moderates over liberals to the extent of refusing to help some of the latter in their races (Ed Helm is a particularly egregious example). Plus, when the leadership is of such a character, potential candidates are more likely to paint themselves moderate to attract more support from the party structure.
So don't draw up a silly, subjective list to try to prop up your argument without at least trying to defend who you place where. We're all better than that.
At 7:37 AM, June 05, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Wally said:
First, including School Board people? I think not. I point out that such races are NONPARTISAN. Granted, so is the mayoral election, just to name one. But unlike the Mayor's office, the School Board does not deal with a whole lot in the way of partisan issues, UNLIKE the Mayor's office. People on the School Board don't have a whole lot of chance to express ideologies, so don't even pull that.
Wally, it seems my job lately is to inform you of the FACTS - like the nonexistent 50 story condos you alleged, the impact fees that you accused Kriseman of waiving (then your changed your assertion to some vague "environmental impact" backpedalling). Now let me once again inform you - Mary Brown and Linda Lerner were elected in PARTISAN school board races in 2002 and prior. And if you don't understand that people like Nancy Bostock and Linda Lerner are widely known for their convservative/liberal positions respectively, then you must be living in Washington most of the time.
That's right, you don't live here most of the year - hence your glaring ignorance to many facets of the political landscape in Pinellas. Perhaps you should study up, or tone down the baseless rhetoric, and misstatements of fact, Wally. Your sounding like Mini-Helms.
Plus, I'm not convinced someone like Mary Brown could be considered moderate (or even would consider herself moderate, but I don't know her outside of having met her once or twice).
Another example of your illogic - you admittedly DONT KNOW Mary Brown, so why make the assertion that she's not moderate (other than to argue for the sake of argument)?
I DO KNOW Mary Brown - and she is moderate.
Frank Peterman is a moderate? Really? I don't buy it.
Ordained Baptist Minister with his own Missionary Baptist congregation. If you know anything about the Missionary Baptist church, then you know a Minister in that church is probably as Blue Dog as I am.
Buy that, Wally. I mean really, do you have any rational basis for your innaccurate assertions?
Neither do I think you can just drop Les Miller in your camp, nor Rene Flowers, nor Earnest Williams or even Jamie Bennett.
What you THINK is irrelevant. Fact is that Flowers, Williams, Bennett and Kriseman are DLC members.
The point can also be made that the leadership of the local party, despite its rank and file, has been "moderate" for quite some time. These leaders have preferred moderates over liberals to the extent of refusing to help some of the latter in their races (Ed Helm is a particularly egregious example).
Ed Helm is a nut, lost every precinct in St. Petersburg, and lost to Baker by more than 70, yes SEVENTY points in some predominately Democratic, African American precincts. Your point is the party leaders should have backed such a ridiculously flawed candidate?
I'm sorry Wally, I've got to go to work. And if I'm going to have to keep schooling you, I'll need a higher salary. Hey, there's another DLC theme - education reform. But you probably disagree with that on principle, being the illogical, fact-challenged Helms groupie that you are.
At 9:56 AM, June 05, 2006, jpublic said…
Wonderful stuff folks… but here’s the thing…
Can any of you actually define “Liberal”, or have you just fallen into the R framing of it. Is your understanding of the term limited to “it’s just a bad thing”, or do you have any real substantive reasoning.
It’s also interesting that we designate local D’s as either liberal or moderate… The ugly reality is the in Pinellas, for the most part, you have elected leaders who are either Republicans, or Democrats owned by the Republicans. Both of which are financed by the same group of people, regardless of Party affiliation.
As I’ve said often… loyalty is to the dollar, and there's no such thing as “bi-partisan, moderate, cross the isle support… or any other number of market tested mind manipulation phrases. Those phrases are only used to justify taking the money, no matter where it comes from. To assert that current local elected officials avoid a connection with the DEC because of Helm… is simply absurd. They avoid it because they can’t answer the questions of loyalty and affiliation… period.
Some of you call it “productive” for all our leaders to simply agree on everything, guided by the party in power… so what’s the point of having a board or governing body of anything… just elect one person and be done with it. Heaven forbid we should engage in the Democracy of healthy debate over ideas, theories, and concepts for the betterment of the people we serve. No, no, no… we should mind-screw the public into believing that we all get along and agree on everything. Those who benefit are the aforementioned campaign finance steering committees, not the people or the balance of power and theory.
From what I gather… McCallum, Roche, Gerdes, and several more are the future of the Party in Pinellas, in the eyes of many Pinellas D’s. There’s excitement in the Pinellas ‘D’ arena again. Membership is growing and apathy is declining.
Fool yourselves about “Can’t we all just get along”… but name one Pinellas ‘R’ who has stood next to and endorsed a ‘D’ candidate against an ‘R’ candidate. Name ‘em, go ahead… Don’t bother listing “non-partisan’ races… that’s a load of crap and we all know it… list ‘em from a partisan perspective. I can name several D’s who have done it… and again, the common thread… campaign finance committees… and the all mighty dollar.
Those are the same ones who where $700 suits, drive Escalades… all the while spewing “I feel your pain”… Wake the hell up.
At 11:58 AM, June 05, 2006, krs2 said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 11:58 AM, June 05, 2006, krs2 said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 12:10 PM, June 05, 2006, krs2 said…
I almost spit up my coffee when i read this comment from jpublic: From what I gather… McCallum, Roche, Gerdes, and several more are the future of the Party in Pinellas, in the eyes of many Pinellas D’s.
I can deduce a few things from this:
1. Jpublic lives in Siberia.
2. Jpublic is an Ed Helm disciple with no understanding of reality.
3. Jpublic is either Mr. Roche, Ms. Mccallum or Mr. Gerdes.
At 1:11 PM, June 05, 2006, Peter Schorsch said…
Let's not lump Liz in with Roche or Gerdes. She's the most moderate candidate running in any of these districts.
At 1:15 PM, June 05, 2006, jpublic said…
Wrong on all counts krs2… Care to take a shot at answering the questions I posted?
Define liberal…
Name the R’s…
I’ve not seen or heard Gerdes, so I can’t speak directly on him. I have seen, met, and heard both McCallum and Roche. You couldn’t be farther from the truth about them. Both are very moderate but loyal to the Party. Both understand the difference between holding office, and running for office in a two-Party system, and I think both are going to win in September.
The fear is what true and loyal Democrats will do for the local Party’s strength. In Pinellas, the R Party has enjoyed a great deal of power and control over the political scene. Frankly, some of these new D’s scare the hell out of the R’s in Pinellas.
This position doesn’t come from me… it comes from some local R’s in Pinellas who occupy some of the highest levels of government down there. The Pinellas D Party is on the verge of exploding… and not in a bad way from what I’m told. It’s true, they’re having difficulty dealing with the exposure of some of the local elected officials affiliations, connections, and true loyalties… but that as they say… is that.
We’ll see what happens down there over the next few months. It is after all, at the other end of the corridor.
At 1:17 PM, June 05, 2006, jpublic said…
peter,
What’s you experience with Roch and Gerdes? I hear they’re all pretty tight … have you met either of them?
At 1:22 PM, June 05, 2006, cgerdes said…
I post using my name, which you know krs2 because you have criticized me for posting when Tom Piccolo entered the race.
I entered the race in Dist 53 because I'm fed up with what has been happening in Tallahassee, and I believe I can contribute toward returning government to the people instead of narrow special and party interests. I am running for the people who live and work in Dist 53, my home for over 40 years. I'm running proudly as a Democrat but I'm not running to do the bidding of the Democratic party or anyone else. I'm not running agaist Rick Kriseman. Rick Kriseman is a great human being, and a hard working public servant. I believe the people in our District have 2 fantastic Dem candidates to choose from and the people will win no matter which Dem goes to Tallahassee. And it will be a Dem from Dist. 53. If the people of Dist 53 select Rick in the primary I will be his hardest working supporter.
I have an interest in making our local party as strong, responsive, and cohesive as it can be, but I did not enter my race with the intention of being the "future" of anything. I simply and merely want to do everything I can for the people in my community so that we can improve our quality of life and leave great opportunities for our kids and their kids. I'm running as a Democrat because I've always been a Democrat and I believe in the principles of our party -- equity, justice, compassion, inclusion.
I believe that our party benefits greatly when we have more than one quality candidate in a race. We have been criticized as a party for having no stance of substance except to constantly whine that the Republicans have got it wrong, and for failing to identify and run quality candidates. Now we have a strong statewide message that is right on point, and we have several races where we have several races with multiple high quality Dem candidates. We have 2 great gubernatorial candidates, either one of which can take the mansion back if we all get behind the primary winner no matter who it is. We have 5 candidates in the race to succeed Jim Davis in congress, at least 2 of which are top notch candidates in anyone's book. Now we have 2 great Dem candidates in Dist. 52.
With multiple legitimate high quality candidates we all win. The candidates are forced to think clearer, work harder, and communicate more frequently to earn the majority vote they seek. The level of debate is heightened and focused. These are all positive consequences. Liz said from the start she expected a primary opponent. How can you ask for a better opponent than Bill. He'll stick to the issues, he'll listen, he'll work to suggest and achieve solutions. And so will Liz. The race between Liz and Bill will highlight the fact that Democrats have intelligent articulate and zealous candidates that can govern effectively and successfully. I believe my race with Rick will have the same result, a fantastic Dem going to Tallahassee to put things right. And we will put an end to the criticism that our party has no good candidates.
At 2:10 PM, June 05, 2006, jpublic said…
Well put cgerdes, well put.
I've been quite surprised at the criticism toward those who actually engage in the process. Keep in mind that most of the people who post on this blog are either involved with, or fancy themselves involved with a campaign.
I have found that the majority have no a clue as to the real pulse of the voters either at the local, state, or national level. This blog hardly represents the masses, and rarely demonstrates objectivity. It’s interesting banter at best... a great deal of set up to gage reaction… some good and usable discussion, but mostly opinion. It has some value as a campaign tool, but very little.
Best of luck to you in your race.
At 2:10 PM, June 05, 2006, jpublic said…
Well put cgerdes, well put.
I've been quite surprised at the criticism toward those who actually engage in the process. Keep in mind that most of the people who post on this blog are either involved with, or fancy themselves involved with a campaign.
I have found that the majority have no a clue as to the real pulse of the voters either at the local, state, or national level. This blog hardly represents the masses, and rarely demonstrates objectivity. It’s interesting banter at best... a great deal of set up to gage reaction… some good and usable discussion, but mostly opinion. It has some value as a campaign tool, but very little.
Best of luck to you in your race.
At 2:53 PM, June 05, 2006, Norm Roche said…
I suppose that the “BUZZ” goes beyond the website and the newspaper. I received a call that my name was being thrown about this site. I’ve read many of the posts. Some are very interesting. Everyone has the right and is welcome to their opinion. I would have to say kudos’ to Mr. Gerdes post. I too have no need or purpose to post under a false name. Those who know me, also know my penchant for honesty. One of my best and possibly my worst traits is brutal honesty. Honesty is a double edge sword sometime, but I’ll stay with it.
I have no trouble answering anyone’s questions with regard to my candidacy. You can certainly visit my website at www.votenorm.com to peruse some of my platform, and my plans to make Pinellas County a better place to live. I won’t engage in any mudslinging at my opponent. I know him, I respect his service to our community, but I also feel it is time for a change in our County’s direction. I’m honored to present myself to Pinellas voters as a choice for that change in direction.
I stand ready to answer your questions, and to serve our County. Just let me know.
Due Respects.
At 3:20 PM, June 05, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
Oh spare us JPUBLIC. This was a thread about Bill Heller enterering the H53 race until you started the moderate/liberal debate with your post, including the following lunacy:
"Ok… here it is. I’ve contacted several friends in the Pinellas DEC to find out what’s going on with this race… and boy did they have something to say!
Apparently, a while back, McCallum made some sort of comment about gay people. This pissed off the “Lesbian” and soon to depart County Chair. The Chair has actively pursued a challenger against McCallum ever since… and sees this as one of her (out-going chair) last knives in the back of her less than favorite candidates. Apparently, the outgoing chair is not done either. Plans to attack other local candidates who won’t tow the stonewall agenda or sell-out to the R money… are planned before she leaves. Look out down there; hell hath no wrath like a woman who wants to be a man…
It seems that some of the Pinellas DEC members are tired of their “sell-out to Republican” elected officials and candidates… and have been calling for loyalty. ,
And you've continued your ingnorant, fact-challenged rants ever since. To wit:
The ugly reality is the in Pinellas, for the most part, you have elected leaders who are either Republicans, or Democrats owned by the Republicans.
You've made that assertion several times, yet just because you say it, doesn't mean it's true. How are the moderate Dems "owned" by Republicans, exactly? Like Wally, you're long on left wing babbling rhetoric, and short on specifics.
To assert that current local elected officials avoid a connection with the DEC because of Helm… is simply absurd. They avoid it because they can’t answer the questions of loyalty and affiliation… period.
Yeah, that's as absurd as the Pinellas Party chair leaving because she's weary of contending with the backwards Helms contingent. It'll never happen.
Again, moderate Pinellas Dems haven't agreed on everything, and truth be known, there are a whole lot of partisan issues at the local level.
When pressed for facts, your fellow extremenist Wally babbled on about nonexistent 50 story condos, unspecified "impact fee" waivers, and development (in a County that's already built out). Do you have any SPECIFICS issues that the local Dems folded on, or do you see imaginary 50 story condos too?
From what I gather… McCallum, Roche, Gerdes, and several more are the future of the Party in Pinellas, in the eyes of many Pinellas D’s.
As KRS2 said, you have to be on crack, or you're Norm Roche.
but name one Pinellas ‘R’ who has stood next to and endorsed a ‘D’ candidate against an ‘R’ candidate. Name ‘em, go ahead… Don’t bother listing “non-partisan’ races… that’s a load of crap and we all know it…
Mary Brown in the PARTISAN 2002 School Board Race, Ken Welch in 2000 and 2004, Calvin Harris in 1998 and 2002 all had Republicans on their host committees. Guess you're as uninformed as you seem.
Those are the same ones who where $700 suits, drive Escalades…
Would you feel better if they wore jeans and rode bicycles?
This position doesn’t come from me… it comes from some local R’s in Pinellas who occupy some of the highest levels of government down there. The Pinellas D Party is on the verge of exploding… and not in a bad way from what I’m told.
Uh, "down there"? So I assume you, like Wally, really don't live in Pinellas and are just spewing your ignorance from afar. Great.
But it's true, R's in Pinellas are nervous - as are R's across the nation - because Republicans are in trouble for a number of reasons including the Iraq war, fuel prices, corruption scandals and more. That's why it's so sad that extremists like you are diverting the attention of the Democratic party away from winning in '06 and '08, by labeling elected moderate Pinellas Dems as "sellouts" and "Republicrats".
If you and your left wing extremist cohorts keep it up, you'll manage to once again snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
At 4:32 PM, June 05, 2006, jpublic said…
Damn blue dog dlc, you seem quite upset… me thinks I struck a nerve…:-)
As I said, krs2 was wrong on all counts. I’m not on crack and I’m not Roche. But to clear up some of you convoluted puke…
“Yeah, that's as absurd as the Pinellas Party chair leaving because she's weary of contending with the backwards Helms contingent. It'll never happen.”
If the chair could not deal with Helm, she wasn’t cut out to be a leader in the first place. He doesn’t have that much power in Pinellas, bonehead.
“Mary Brown in the PARTISAN 2002 School Board Race, Ken Welch in 2000 and 2004, Calvin Harris in 1998 and 2002 all had Republicans on their host committees. Guess you're as uninformed as you seem.”
School Board in Non-partisan, and Welsh and Harris are D’s not R’s “unless that was Freudian on your part”. Reread my question, bonehead… name the R’s…
“Would you feel better if they wore jeans and rode bicycles?”
You missed that point entirely, bonehead.
“If you and your left wing extremist cohorts keep it up, you'll manage to once again snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.”
And that’s about as lame as they come my friend. How’s the Kool-Aid down there?
No, I don’t live in Pinellas, but close… and you still haven’t defined liberal.
At 7:15 PM, June 05, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
JPublic said:
School Board in Non-partisan, and Welsh and Harris are D’s not R’s “unless that was Freudian on your part”. Reread my question, bonehead… name the R’s…
Jpublic, you're proving yourself the be the fool I thought you were. You claimed no R's supported any Dems. I gave you THREE Dems who had support from Rs. Rs who even served on the HOST COMMITTEES of Mary Brown, Calvin Harris and Ken Welch. It started in '98, when sitting Republican Commissioners Sallie Parks and Steve Seibert endorsed Harris, and the list continues. I could go on, but you've been exposed as not knowing what the hell you're babbling about. Again.
How dense are you, exactly? Hilarious. :D
At 9:15 PM, June 05, 2006, TB Blue Dog said…
I figured that it would be a good idea for the original blue dog to poke his head up in this ridiculously over-done thread.
First, the definition of a Pinellas DEC "liberal." I would say a noun to describe members of Ed Helm's Pinellas Progressives (nonsanctioned club) or one of the many members of St. Pete Food Not Bombs who hold membership in the DEC. Pinellas Progressives are the folks (as you may recall) that felt that the biggest issue facing the city of St. Pete is curbside recycling. The St Pete FNB folks are the ones who will feed the homeless once a week and only vegetarian food. Along with other DEC individuals, the Pinellas Young Democrats participate actively with this organization which "seeks to end the military occupations of Iraq, Afganistan, and Palestine." Additionally, the Pinellas DEC has a particularily virulent brand of 60-70 year old feminist who just can't let the ERA drop.
A good working definition of Pinellas DEC Liberal would be a person who clings to a political belief or position despite public support or changes in society. For these people it's still about the run-up to war, still about Bill Nelson voting for Gonzales and Alito, and still about the rest of the world leaving them behind.
Mr. DLC, good job carrying the torch in my absence and I congratulate you on your efforts ed-a-kate-in dem yankees. Good luck sir!
At 10:50 PM, June 05, 2006, TampaBayDem said…
As this is allegedly a thread about HD 52, I'll ignore the voluminous posts from Wally on most points, but I have to respond to one item.
You have hardly "debunked" the issue of Liz McCallum's homophobic statements. They may have been made in a private conversation in the one instance you speak of (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it's the only one you know of), but she made these remarks to numerous people in St. Pete and around the state. She made these statements to several state-level party officials as well as to a number of lobbyists and other contributors.
It is important to note, however, that even apart from these statements, she has not proven herself to be a viable candidate, Peter's rhetoric aside.
At 10:54 PM, June 05, 2006, TampaBayDem said…
And since when did anyone become entitled to an uncontested open-seat primary just because they threw themselves on their sword to run against an incumbent? I don't remember which of you said that, but that is the kind of ridiculous view that guarantees we'll continue to lose elections.
At 11:34 PM, June 05, 2006, midtown moderate said…
tampabaydem is right on in his last point.
Using the logic that running once and earning 47% against an incumbent is an automatic ticket for the nomination when the seat becomes open, every Democrat running for President would get out of the way to give John Kerry another shot. I haven't heard anyone suggest that here.
At 11:36 PM, June 05, 2006, eagleskin said…
What a rant you've got going on Bill Heller entering the race for District 52! There's obviously a lot of frustration out there in the form of worried Republicans and worried Democrats who are having to work very hard this year because there are so darn many Democratic candidates declared for office! Gosh! the likes of Mr. King who the Florida Democratic Party wanted to pay ($3K/month) to work for Mr. Kriseman, the rising squishy "star" of the Democratic Party, are actually going to have to work in this election cycle. (I hope he learns to read, especially the Florida Election law!)
There are a lot of vibrant, hardworking, candidates, (witness the literate and articulate Mr. Gerdes)defying conventional wisdom and shaking people up. Yea! That's what a political party is supposed to do!
Back to Mr. Heller who may be a marvelous community spirit, dedicated educator and real contributor to USF. But puleeze!, the SPTimes gave him an engraved invitation to run, practically endorsing him before he declared, and he still dilly-dallied around for several weeks before making up his independent, no ooops! Democratic, Republican- contributing mind! Heller may be a champ, but it's not his year -- there's just too much momentum for the underdog in this "we've had enough!" year, and Liz McCallum is surely that.
Remember, no matter how hard people would like to control Liz McCallum and her campaign, she's learned who really counts in this race -- she only lost by 3100 votes last time. Do you think those voters have ever heard of Bill Heller, no matter what a nice guy or stellar fellow he is?
So the Pinellas Democrats are beginning to behave like a political party -- fielding candidates for office, talking about loyatly, raising money to support candidates, organizing people to build networks among neighborhoods and precincts. The tea party may be over for those who just want to "make nice," lose and lose again, and those who understand that poitics is about power: who has it, who wants it, and who will use it for the common good. Look out comfortable do nothings, the worm is turning!
At 2:01 AM, June 06, 2006, Wally said…
tampabaydem: Sorry about the voluminous posts. Brevity and topicality are points I'm working on. You're right that the instance I outlined was the only one I knew of where Liz McCallum made the comments alleged - I am unaware that there are/were others. Nevertheless, if she was making a simple political assessment of a situation that still hardly qualifies as homophobia.
bluedog: For someone who spends so much time "schooling" you seem to not recall the listening part of your youthful education. Apart from the fact that I never mentioned "impact fees" nor did I backpedal (I clarified it as " environmental impact statements" rather than just "impact statements"), you still managed to dodge most of the important things I said. If you win anything, it's only the contest of brevity. Important - but not the ball game.
But now you seem to be trying the same fast-one on jpublic, who isn't buying it either. Try replying to questions rather than bullying your way through them and pulling the same spin tactics as your Republican friends. It's what will continue to paralyze our party for some time to come - not any "far-left" activity.
At 9:19 AM, June 06, 2006, jpublic said…
Thank you wally, you’re a good dem. Here are the questions again blue… give it a shot if you dare…
1. Can any of you actually define “Liberal”, or have you just fallen into the R framing of it. Is your understanding of the term limited to “it’s just a bad thing”, or do you have any real substantive reasoning.
2. Name one Pinellas ‘R’ in office who has stood next to and
endorsed a ‘D’ candidate against an ‘R’ candidate.
At 9:52 AM, June 06, 2006, feducator said…
Didn't Sally Parks (and one other) endorse Calvin Harris for Commission over Republican Tom McKeown (sp?) ??
Thought I remembered somethin about them taking their pictures down from the Republican headquarters.....
Sound familiar to anyone else ?
At 12:39 PM, June 06, 2006, eagleskin said…
Liberal - same root as liberty, freedom, also liber -- book. Any readers out there?
Didn't Mr. Heller, supposed Democrat, by his contribution to Mr. Cappelli, Republican candidate against Democrat Liz McCallum, make a tacit endorsement of his candidacy?
At 1:06 PM, June 06, 2006, jpublic said…
Well done eagleskin, thank you. How about:
a. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
b. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Anyone care to denounce his or her liberal thoughts now? I’m proud of mine.
Close on Heller. I’m looking for seated R’s endorsing D’s against “R Party backed” R’s. McKeown wasn’t and R’ Party backed. Parks is just like Rice and Coats… all D’s who switched just to win due to D apathy of the time.
At 4:58 PM, June 06, 2006, midtown moderate said…
Question.
If the party is so inept and powerless, both here in St. Pete as well as in Tallahassee, then why would these "supposed" Democrats want to run as Democrats? Wouldn't they just want to run as a Republican?
I tend to think we should stop bashing credible community leaders who are willing to run for public office as Democrats. This district is fortunate to have two strong candidates and this primary will make the winner a much better candidate.
At 10:47 PM, June 06, 2006, Wally said…
Primaries can indeed be good for a candidate and help to hone their campaign; this can be counter-balanced, however, by the need to waste time and effort contesting a primary, especially if one side or the other is a sure thing (not true in this case) or one side has been in it from the get-go and the other is something of a dark horse (somewhat more true here).
However, I think it's clear that the Republicans have the far tougher and bloodier primary in this race, so perhaps the primary will be a good thing. My money is still on Liz - I don't think Heller really has it in him.
At 12:10 AM, June 07, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 12:14 AM, June 07, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
This post has been removed by the author.
At 7:09 AM, June 07, 2006, Blue Dog DLC said…
tbbluedog said:
Mr. DLC, good job carrying the torch in my absence and I congratulate you on your efforts ed-a-kate-in dem yankees. Good luck sir!
I bow in the presence of greatness, sir! Your definition of a liberal is brilliant, and dead spot on.
jpublic said:
2. Name one Pinellas ‘R’ in office who has stood next to and
endorsed a ‘D’ candidate against an ‘R’ candidate.
How many times do you need to be told, Jpublic? Been hitting the 'shine too much up there in God's country? Drowned too many brain cells? Or are you just naturally slow? :D
Once again, here are seated Rs who endorsed Ds in Pinellas:
Rick Baker - endorsed Calvin Harris, Ken Welch, Frank Peterman and Mary Brown(in the partisan '02 school board race)
Bill Foster, Everett Rice and John Bryan - endorsed Ken Welch in 2004
Steve Seibert and Sallie Parks - endorsed Calvin Harris in 1998
Those are just off the top of my head. Then again, it doesn't take much to blow your bogus takes out of the water. You have your Rs who supported Dems. Will you shut the hell up now, or embarrass yourself further with innaccuracies, lesbian cracks and "republicrat" smack?
Post a Comment
<< Home