Biggest regret in 2008: Not publishing this Wendy and Lisa interview
I had secured some talk time with Lisa Coleman, the keyboard-playing half of the songwriting and performing duo Wendy and Lisa -- two proteges of the Purple Genius himself.
I was such a fan that back in college, when I was playing drums in a band that had a record deal with Motown, I wrote them a letter offering to be their drummer -- like a kid asking for Santa Claus to swing by his house for milk and cookies (I got back a publicity photo with a hastily scribbled signature).
I got Stuck in the '80s guru Steve Spears to let me conduct the interview in the podcast studio, so we had an excellent recording of it and it went amazingly well. Turns out, she and partner Wendy Melvoin, who joined the conversation from afar, washing dishes or something in the background, had done some studio work with a friend who was the guitarist in that Motown band I talked about, and Coleman talked candidly about everything from the breakup of her and Melvoin's 20-year romantic relationship to their work scoring TV shows such as Heroes and Crossing Jordan (the one question she wouldn't answer: Who's crazier -- Prince or Me'shell Ndege Ocello?)
But I never found a good time to pull together a story from the interview, and eventually the material seemed to get too old to publish. But I've always regretted not getting it out to the public in some form, so I'm publishing it here, during a week when I'm off work and trying not to do too much.
Eric: Of course, I noticed when I started watching Heroes 'cause I’m the TV critic here, I saw that you guys were scoring it and I think, for some people who haven’t really been paying attention, to them it may seem like you went straight from Prince to scoring TV shows. So could you talk a little bit about how you got involved with scoring TV and particularly how you got involved with scoring Heroes?
Lisa: Okay, sure. It actually, after Prince and the Revolution broke up, we didn’t get into scoring for a while, although with Prince we did, you know, make a couple of films … worked on a couple of films, one of them being Purple Rain, which we actually wanted to score at that time because I … this is Lisa speaking …. I used to do string arrangements for our band – you know, cellos and violins and things, so I was kind of into that already, but the film company felt more comfortable having, you know, hiring a composer. There is a little bit of score in Purple Rain. I’m sure people don’t even really realize that.
E: Yeah. That would have sounded cool if you guys had done it.
L: Yeah, it would have been fun. They actually did use one of my string pieces at the very end of the film when Prince is running after Apollonia or something, and there’s some kind of crazy string thing that’s going on behind it. But anyway, after that we played with lots of different artists. We worked with Seal, we worked with K.D. Lang, I mean, a whole kind of array of different people, and Neil Finn, who’s a great songwriter. He lives in New Zealand and we traveled all over the world with him and did a bunch of things. So when we were working with Seal, I think it was on … we did two or three of his first … the first three, I guess, of his albums. We were working with Trevor Horn on those, and Trevor was approached by Michelle Pfeiffer for a song for Dangerous Minds, and he was just learning and hearing our first album, the first Wendy and Lisa album, and he liked a song on it called This Is the Life. So he presented that to Michelle Pfeiffer, who really liked it. So, anyway, to make a long story short, we ended up scoring that film because they didn’t like the score that they were getting from another composer and they thought, given our background with Prince, it might be better suited for the film 'cause it was, you know, about gangs and kind of in the urban plight film.
L: Yeah, you know, being that we’re two black chicks (laughter), we could really get that together. It’s really funny. I mean, it’s great, you know, and we can totally do that and it is part of who we are. It’s just funny. I mean, people have literally met us sometimes and we walk in and they see these two white chicks walking in, and they’re like, oh, we thought you were black (laughs). Like, oh, well, we are.
E: Didn’t they look at MTV at all in the ‘80s? I mean …
L: Oh, my God (laughs). Well, you know, speaking of MTV, we weren’t even allowed on MTV at first. It was all like, you know, white hair bands.
E: Oh, yeah, I remember that.
L: So anyway, that was our foray into film scoring and I guess from there we just, you know, kind of dabbled, did a few films … again, like Soul Food and, you know, black films (laughter). You know, it’s funny that we’re doing Heroes now because it’s so different, you know. I mean, musically it’s something completely other … I think it kind of matches the subject matter of the show, which is very supernatural and, you know, world music meets outer world music.
E: So, I just wrote a piece about how there are no theme songs on TV anymore, and so scoring Heroes, for example, I mean, you have this really recognizable snippet of music that plays when the show starts, but it’s not really a theme. I mean, does that bum you out at all that you don’t get to actually write a theme song, like The Brady Bunch or something like that?
L: Yeah, it does, and it was funny when they asked for a theme at one point because, you know, when we did the pilot there was this whole opening … the first act was almost entirely scored and so we had to write kind of several themes to present the show, you know. We were introducing Peter, who was standing on the edge of a roof and you didn’t know if he was committing suicide or … we didn’t know what was going on – what is this show about – so that was kind of cool in a way because, you know, we could … we had a lot of opportunities musically. I’ll just put it that way. So then, you know, a few shows in, they decided, okay, well, there has to be like a title card where we, you know, where every week they do a thing and then they show Heroes, blah-blah-blah. And when they asked for the theme, we were like oh, okay, great, we can do a theme. How long do you think it should be? And they said, 10 seconds. (laughter)...So that is really a challenge. Talk about a challenge 'cause it’s like, okay, how do we make 10 seconds be really Impacting and memorable and …
E: So how did you?
L: Well, we actually took a piece of the opening we had done on the pilot that we thought was really striking. And there was this big chord, and the voice. There’s this singer … this singer Shankar that we worked with. You probably know that.
E: Yeah, yeah. I’m a huge Peter Gabriel fan too, so …
L: Yeah, exactly. So he’s that guy, that Peter Gabriel guy. He’s amazing and we knew that if we just used his voice … because we had decided … by that point it was very easy to decide that his voice was gonna be a huge part of the signature of the entire show. And whenever we use his voice, it signifies the power, this otherworldly, supernatural thing that is happening to these people. All these people are discovering these powers that they have. And it’s most always a surprise to them and they’ll do something and then they’re just like, oh, my God, what was that? And that’s when you hear Shankar’s voice. It’s always … because we thought that that was the best way to represent all of mankind, in a way, because it was a human voice, you know? There was a kind of a search in the beginning to decide how do we score this show because there are characters from all over the world. We’ve got, you know, a Japanese guy, an Indian guy, you know, a girl from Texas, you know, just all these different elements. What’s gonna tie them all together? And, you know, pretty obvious – the human voice does that 'cause we’re all human. So we found this guy Shankar, who happened to be working in the very same building downstairs with a friend of ours, and we just would see each other in the hall and then … I think our engineer mentioned, why don’t you ask Shankar? Like, oh, my God, that’s it. Eureka!
E: So I do have to ask, you know, the obligatory Prince questions, so …
L: Okay, no problem.
E: But there seems to be like a love-hate thing with a lot of people who worked with him for a long time.
E: Is that true for you guys, too?
L: No. I mean (laughs) … no, I just hate him. (laughter)
E: Well, I appreciate your candor.
L: I can only say that because …
E: I now have a lead to my story.
L: No, we totally love him. We both love him so much it’s like … it’s stupid. And he is not an easy boy to love sometimes. He is crazy, yes. I’m sorry … you can quote me. I’ve said crazy. And we’ve been through so much together with him and we still communicate, we still come back together all the time. And, you know, I guess you could say it has gone through periods of love-hate but I think we’re always gonna love each other. I mean, we really did go through a lot together. We spent … (Wendy says something out of earshot) I need to really have patience for the man. I mean, and it’s true. He always knows he can always get us … ah, damn it, you know. He’ll just, like, you know …
L: Even to this day, he sends tracks. Like, nowadays, he can like e-mail a track, a pro-tools file or something like that and “will you put the guitar part on it?” (laughter) “Okay.” “Are you gonna pay me?” (laughter) Like, no.
E: And if I write something that becomes like a hook, will I get publishing?
L: No. (laughter) No, but we get to talk about you in interviews, nanna, nanna, nan-na.
E: Yeah, so the confidentiality agreements have expired.
L: Oh, man, I never honored that thing anyway.
E: So, now, you guys, your plot in Purple Rain, I mean, for a lot of people that’s a real touchstone. You know, people remember that from the movie, and so was that art imitating life or did life wind up imitating art later, when you guys eventually left?
L: That’s a good question. I would say that both actually are true because … I mean, now, that all these years have gone by, it seems like it’s happened repeatedly, so it seems even more true (laughter). Like, back then, it had only been five years or something like that, so it was like only kinda true. And he actually, you know … he actually really did count on Wendy and I for a lot of stuff, and he didn’t really make that a secret, and he wanted us to be his spokespeople, especially Wendy. He really counted on her for all the interviews and things like that because she was very charismatic and energetic and young and a little firecracker, and he really loved her to go out there. It was like, you go, you go talk, you go do, you go accept the awards, you know, stuff like that.
E: Right. She accepted the Grammy, right?
E: His first Grammy.
L: Yeah, so, you know, so that was kinda nice and he always was really gracious and everything, so I don’t know … and we were just so young, you know. Now it’s just kind of like I wish we had had a better business sense or something because, you know, it’s only reflected in our love-hate relationship and not really in our bank account (laughs). And, you know, the same goes for him. His business wasn’t very tidy for himself, so he’s always going up against it and then going out and charging a million dollars a night and then making it all back, you know. So we were all young and foolish when we could have been a little more savvy and planned things better.
E: It feels like pop music is sort of filled with these American Idol-, Hannah Montana-type creations and the days when you had folks who kinda came up through a scene and paid some dues and were real musicians, you know, just less and less of that these days.
L: I know. It kinda surprises me because I always felt like we were kind of pioneering some ground and that there would probably be this whole new generation of amazing kids … and a lot of girls. I thought, you know, oh, there’s gonna be some amazing girls coming up, you know? And there are some but I think that the industry is so polarized at this point, really all you do see are the American Idol kids and, you know, and the other people who are trying to get bands together and make records and stuff, there’s kinda no place for them to go other than there’s My Space and that sort of thing. So you have to just look for it yourself. It’s not really presented the way it was, you know, a while ago.
E: I agree. I mean, you guys, you seem like you had this whole ethic of kinda girl-power music that, for one reason or another, just did not break through like people thought it would.
L: Yeah, I know. I don’t know if it was timing or what, but it just didn’t like connect or the problem again with just being black and, you know, they’re trying to keep a brother down. (laughter)..It’s a black thing (laughter). Again, it was like that timing of, like, with the relatives, a perfect example. We had just been signed to Virgin Worldwide and, you know, then all of a sudden, Virgin was sold and like all these changes happened, and we got lost. And then nobody knew what to do with us and thought, are you guys a funk band or an acoustic … what are you? They didn’t know quite what to do with us.
E: If you and Wendy were black, I felt like you would have gotten a fairer shake from the record industry.
L: You know, I know, I know. I’ve had that thought, which is very odd, you know.
E: It is. They don’t know what to do with white folks who want to play, you know, quote, unquote, black music.
E: You have to be behind the scenes, basically.
L: Yeah. (pictures courtesy of NBC publicity, Wendy and Lisa publicity)
L: Yeah, that’s true, yeah, and actually, if you think about it, with Prince, what we were really doing and what he was interested in was doing a whole mix of things and really incorporating different sounds and the album after Prince … well, Purple Rain itself has, I think, a huge mixture of different kinds of music, you know. And then Around the World in a Day was obviously really psychedelic and …
E: Yeah, I was going to say, that was like his Sgt. Pepper’s, right?
L: Yeah, yeah, and that was … my brother, David, had a big influence on him. David … he passed away four years ago, which is very painful for me, but he left an amazing impact on the world and he was quite a musical genius and very worldly. He was quite a character. He taught himself to speak Arabic and French and Spanish, and he was like that with music, too. He could play any instrument and he’s the one that co-wrote Around the World in a Day with Prince. He’d actually written that song and Prince heard it and was, like, oh, my God, listen to that chorus. So he used the chorus and wrote some … kinda changed the verses around and, you know, that’s when he started playing finger cymbals and, you know, you hear, like the oud, which is the Arabic guitar. That’s my brother playing that and all those crazy cello things.
E: That’s so funny to me because, you know, I was in a funk band around that time – that was on Motown – and we would spend so much time sort of deconstructing those records, and …
L: Oh, really?
E … picking out the recording techniques and stuff, you know? The stuff you’d do with the vocals, speeding up the tape and singing or slowing down the tape and singing …
L: Yeah, yeah.
E: We copped all that stuff from you guys.
L: On, my God. What band were you in?
E: Oh, you probably never heard of us. We were called the Voyage Band, and we got signed, like, right before Motown got sold to MCA, so they like dropped everybody, but we did get to make a record.
L: Isn’t it great when they do that? That happened to us a lot of times. Almost every record that Wendy and I made, like the president would sign us and then the company would completely change hands, and the new guys would come in and go, whoa, who are these girls? What do we do with them? I don’t understand.
E: And you’re in this weird situation where if your project succeeds and makes the old people look good, and if they spend money on you and it fails, it makes them look like idiots ‘cause they supported something the old people did. (laughter) So you can’t win, you know. And we were too stupid to know that, so …
L: I know, yeah, right.
E: That’s cool. So, now, am I right in hearing that you’re the comic-book nerd of the two?
L: Yes, you’re right.
E: So I gotta ask, what are your favorite books?
L: Oh, God, I have so many. I hate answering that question. And I’m always checking out new things, too. I love going to the comic-book store and I just get lost and I always walk out with bags of things.
E: Oh, my goodness. You’re like my perfect woman. You’re playing funk music and you love comics. Holy, moley.
L: See? Oh, my gosh. Too bad you’re so far away.
E: But I noticed how you weaseled out of the favorite book question. That was very good.
L: You’re good.
E: That was very good. See, I’m a journalist.
L: Oh, man, the hard question. Tough journalism. All right, well, I will admit that years ago I got into Sandman, the Sandman series, and I think I read the whole entire thing. How many were there – 72 or something like that?
E: Yeah, some outrageous amount.
L: And so I read all of those. Those were great, and I’m just a sucker for, like, Spiderman, you know? I get into all the … Spiderman’s fighting my man and Batman … I love the dark night stuff – like working with Jeff Loeb and Tim Sale is like totally dreamy. I couldn’t believe when I met those guys. I like drooled on them and it was really embarrassing, and I got them to sign things for me and stuff like that.
L: Hey, Wendy just walked in. I don’t know if you guys want to include her in this conversation.
E: If she wants to include herself, that’s cool. If not …
L: She said I probably covered it for her. Wendy is the choosiest of the duo. There she is.
E: That’s not what she said before you walked in the room.
L: He said that’s not what I said before you walked in.
W: Probably true.
E: So … and do you think that any of the male thing – the male-female thing – had anything to do with it? Was some of it that you guys didn’t want to play the sex card in an industry that’s sort of dominated by men?
L: Definitely. I mean, we have record company guys down at our video shoots and, like, what are you wearing? Why are you wearing those pants? Like, it was weird....We were like, you don’t understand. These baggy pants, they’re gonna be wearing baggy pants, the baggier the better. They were like … they just didn’t get it. They were old men. They almost canceled this one shoot. It was horrible.
L: Yeah. And they wanted to do, like, photo sessions with us, like wearing fur coats and sitting on motorcycles or … I don’t know. It was really stra-a-a-ange.
E: Man, that’s funny. I remember talking to Paula Cole a while ago – a long time ago – about that, just her just deciding that she was going to walk out of a photo shoot ‘cause she … they kept focusing on her breasts every time she turned around …
E: … the photographer was trying to catch her chest and she was just like, you know what? Forget this.
L: Yeah, God, yeah. See? It’s true. I mean, you try and play along. You try … you know, it’s not like we didn’t want to. We wanted it. We were going for it. We were like, c’mon, let’s do this thing. Let’s be famous, let’s be big, let’s sell records, let’s go out there. We’ll entertain, we’ll do interviews, we’ll go to radio stations, we’ll do whatever, you know. But you gotta see who we are. Don’t, you know, get all mixed up trying to tell us who we are. Let us just show you who we are and it’ll work, it’ll work. I don’t know. It just wasn’t connecting.
E: I interviewed (Parliament-Funkedelic keyboardist) Bernie Worrell a while ago and, you know, all those guys, all those prominent guys, the hugest resentments toward George Clinton. He took ownership of all these songs that they had created and I just wonder how much of that was a conflict for you guys because, again, you guys are writing this stuff together but you don’t necessarily get the same publishing or get the same acknowledgement as writers.
L: Yeah, not at all. It’s a drag. I mean, I don’t know, I don’t think about it that much. It comes up every once in a while when it’s like royalty season comes around and it’s like, I wonder if there’s any money due from Purple Rain, which sold 80-zillion copies and we only saw a little bit of … you know, I think the whole band split one point on that whole album, you know, which is not fair. I don’t know if you … but I don’t know. I’m really happy with my career so I don’t … it’s a good thing. If I was at home drinking Miller Lite I’d probably really be pissed off. But I don’t know … I’ve been blessed with a really good career, so that, I think, is my best revenge, if you want to think of it that way.
E: Most definitely. The one thing you guys haven’t really done is sort of achieve that kind of fame with the pop music that you guys write.
E: Is that a realistic goal now?
L: We always think of … yeah. We always think it is. You know, we’re making this record right now and a lot of it is very vibey and maybe kind of art-driven, but we still think of it in terms of connecting in a big way, you know, and hope that that could happen and we’re gonna … for the first time in a while, I think we’re gonna kind of try and do that and make a nice package and kind of do some kind of circuit with it to help make it connect. And there are some bands that are sort of more adult. You know what I mean? Maybe a little bit older but are kind of making some cool music. Maybe we can slip in to that little arena.
E: Go back and have a reunion tour?
L: (laughs) No, we talked about that.
E: All of these guys – Jesse Johnson, get St. Paul, get …
L: I know … totally.
E: I mean, actually, I’ve laughed but, man, I’d be the first one in line to buy a ticket, to be honest.
L: I know. You’re not the only one who said that. Even in just the last week, I think three people said that to me. That’s so weird. Well, the Family has actually been dabbling a little bit. Right now, Susanna and Paul are writing some songs together. We just helped them write a little song a couple weeks ago. You know, we’ve played with that idea. The closest we came, we did that family jam thing for Sheila E. She has a benefit organization … what was it for? Was it for Little Angel Bunny? She has a couple of different foundations that she does. I can’t even remember now which one it was, but I think it was Little Angel Bunny, and it’s for children – you know, underprivileged kids who use music for therapy and things like that. And we all kind of did a reunion. We had just about everybody but Prince there, and we did a bunch of songs together and it was really fun and it kind of whet our appetite. We were like, oh, man, it would be so great if we could do this. Even just a few gigs and record it or make a DVD or something, it would be fun, it would be great, a lot of people would be so excited by it, but Prince just really wasn’t there. He was just like, nah, I don’t think so.
E: Well, yeah, it’d be hard to get him. But in a weird way, it’d almost be better for you guys if he wasn’t, you know? You could do your thing.
L: Yeah, true.
E: And, I mean, it’d be more about the bands that kinda came together around Prince rather than … ‘cause once he shows up, it’s his gig, you know?
L: Yeah, that’s true. Hey, I like the way you think. Let’s talk later.
E: But a couple of more questions … the craziest Prince story you can tell?
L: Oh, wow. Craziest Prince story. I can’t tell that one … let me think of another one. (laughter)
E: Yeah, it’s got to be something you could actually … I could actually publish. (laughter)
L: Oh, yeah, the crazy Prince story. Oh, there’s some good ones. I mean, okay, I’ll tell you one silly one. When Wendy and Susanna and I had this little house that we rented here in L.A. and we were … Prince called one night and we were just talking on the phone. He was like, I’m bored. I’m gonna come out. So he got on a plane and …
E: Wait, can I just say that it’s hard for me to even picture Prince using a telephone? I don’t know why. It just is.
L: You know, he used to be really funny with the phone. You know, when phone machines first came out? This is how old I am. (laughter)
E: I’m right there with you.
L: Remember how fun they were and you’d do all these silly outgoing messages and stuff?
E: Of course.
L: He was fun like that. He did some funny outgoing messages. He’d do all these different voices and stuff and, you know, he’s really funny. He had all kinds of crazy voices. Like the time records. If you listen to the ti me and …that’s just him just messin’ around. I mean, we had fun. It was like in the basement of his house and we’d just be like … beep, beep, he’d just do all these crazy, crazy things – characters and voices and just all these stories we’d make up.
E: I mean, musicians recognize a fellow studio rat. I can just tell. He’s a guy that hangs out in his studio all the time, doing crazy stuff.
L: Yeah, you just like make up things. You’re just there all night long, all day long. You’re making grilled cheese sandwiches with the mike on (laughs), you know...I mean, that’s how it was back then. I’m not kidding, you know. All kinds of those kind of stories, too. Or like one thing that used to be really cool, like, God, I wish I’d remember what song in particular … like the way he’d cut a song. You know, he’d start with the drums but he’d already have the song in his head... And he’d like go and press “Record” on the machine and then run over to the drums and you’d kinda hear like him jumpin’ over things and trippin’ over wires, sit down on the drums, and then count himself off, tick, tick, tick.
And then he’d like play and he’d like have ... sometimes he’d have like a … lyrics written down on a piece of notebook paper and so he’d try to like sing it in his head and sometimes you’d hear him like kinda grunting and singing a little bit of the song on the drum track. And then he’d imagine in his head like … he told me this, like you have to kick the bass player’s ass. Like when you’re playing the drums, like kick the other guy’s ass, like put things in there that’s gonna make the other guy … which was all him, you know … do something unexpected or like, try to keep up, you know. So it was so cool ‘cause then he’d go … he’d do … the drum track would be down and then he’d go and get the bass and play the bass and then that weird drum lick would come up and then he’d go, “Oh,” you know, like the bass player, and then try to keep and then try to kick the guitar player’s ass, etcetera, etcetera. And it was just really cool to sit there. Like, when I first moved out there, I stayed in his house for a while and we’d just be in the studio all the time, and sometimes I’d be the one punching ‘em in or whatever. That was a lot of good stuff.
E: I always heard this apocryphal story that one time he had a problem with a housekeeper because the rhythm of her footsteps did not go with the song he was hearing in his head. Does that sound at all possible?
L: (laughs) Oh, I don’t know, but I like that, though.
E: And just finally I wanted to ask, I mean, do you guys talk at all – you and Wendy – about how … your sort of personal life, I guess. Do you guys talk about your relationship at all?
E: ‘Cause I’m seeing on the Internet that you guys are together or you’re not or … so do you want to clear up for the fans where things stand?
L: Okay (laughs). No, I want them to keep guessing. Keep on guessing...Well, Wendy was walking around the house one day and I just thought she was out of step and I just threw her to the curb. So … I’m just kidding. No, we’re not together. We were together for many, many years. We made it about 20 years together and now we are not together, but we are still together. I mean, we still share what we … we like to think we can still share the best of ourselves with each other, so, you know, she’ll always be just the most important person. She’s looking at me like, what are you saying? Who are you talking to? I’m talking to my therapist. This is my therapist. Yes, doctor, yes, she’s sitting right there, doctor. (laughs)
E: So, is she a surrogate for your mother in any way?
L: She reminds me of both my mother and my father.
E: Oh, my God. I’m going to hold this tape for blackmail.
L: I know. He’s gonna blackmail me with this tape.
E: So, was any part that was tough about that … the fact that you guys had this public persona that was also kind of a reflection of your private persona, your private relationship?
L: No. For me, not at all because I didn’t … I never thought of it that way and we never really had the big, like, coming-out party or anything like that, and … the hard part was just that we worked so much that we had a lot of pressure all the time and were always trying to make it and, you know, balance just that whole life is really hard and how it’s ego-driven and then it’s, you know … and then it’s so personal. When you write songs and music for me, it’s very personal and really important and heartfelt and, you know, and then having the pressure of like, well, I gotta make it my career and make money by doing it, and I’m sharing it with this other person and I really value her input and her experience of it. And then I have to be there for her and her experience. And, you know, so it was just the whole thing was really high-contrast living. I mean, it was beautiful and exciting and we had the best time and traveled the world, and then just crashed and burned a lot of times and dark and struggles, and we’re never gonna make it and this is just too hard, and what are we doing and, you know … and that kind of thing.
E: So, does it surprise you how far show business has come now in accepting gay people?
L: Yeah … I think a little bit. You know, it’s kind of a little bit scary (laughs).
E: In what way?
L: Like it won’t last.
E: Oh, yeah.
L: You know, because it’s been so true for so long and I think it was kind of unspoken and accepted and then all of a sudden, it was like not accepted and spoken. And then now it’s spoken and accepted. And what combination’s gonna come next? You know what I mean?
E; Okay, my last question: Compare on the craziness scale Prince and Me'Shell Ndege Ocello
L: Oh, God, that’s funny.
E: Is it possible to compare?
L: It’s so different.
E: It’s a different kind of craziness.
L: It’s a different kind of crazy. I love them both. Prince is crazy. Michelle … Wendy, who’s crazier, Michelle or Prince? Compare them on the crazy scale, Michelle and Prince. Wendy said I’m not playing this …
E: She wants to keep working. (laughter)
L: Right, we need to work. These are people that we work with.
E: I think people accept that artists, especially artists that talented, are gonna be a little crazy, right?
L: Yeah. I mean, for as talented as they are and everything, they’re both amazing – amazing, you know, almost visionary kind of people. You know what I mean? And I think people who see that much really struggle with it and, you know, it’s hard. Like the people who are most honest and see the truth as much – it’s the most painful way to live, you know? You can’t turn it off. That’s not a choice. It’s a blessing and a curse. It’s just there. You don’t turn it off.