Detours: a country in search of direction
On the eve of the election, a reporter and photographer set out for Washington, via America. We tell stories from seven towns, touching on seven issues from politics and real life.
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ST. PETERSBURG — Mayor Rick Baker said Wednesday it would be difficult for him to favor a waterfront stadium unless the Tampa Bay Rays add 3,500 parking spaces downtown.
The Rays, Baker said, also must find another 3,500 spaces that are within a half-mile of the proposed stadium and whose owners are willing to cater to baseball.
Can the team win his support without more parking commitments? "I think it would be hard," Baker said. "They're going from a site with 7,000 dedicated parking spaces."
Baker's comments reinforced the findings of a city staff report released late last week. The City Council is scheduled to review the staff recommendations today.
Rays officials declined to respond late Wednesday.
"We need to look at the in-depth analysis … not just a one-page summary," said Rays senior vice president Michael Kalt.
It appears unlikely that such a technical analysis exists.
The city's parking consultant, Kimley-Horn of Tampa, did not suggest a need for the 3,500-space parking garage in its 25-page review of the Rays' plan.
Parking alternatives
The report raised several questions about the Rays' plans — including the willingness of private business owners to open their spaces to the public — but did not find a shortage of parking around the proposed stadium.
City officials say the requirement emerged in a meeting between Kimley-Horn and the city. The consultant then included the recommendation in a letter to the city.
City transportation and parking director Joe Kubicki said the city and Kimley-Horn jointly agreed to discount any parking spaces that were more than a half-mile from the stadium.
"In our opinion, it's too far to walk," Kubicki said of the Ray's three-quarter-mile standard. A Kimley-Horn official could not be reached for comment.
A study by the Rays found that 6,826 spaces will likely be available for weekday night games within a half-mile of the stadium, another 3,135 spaces would be available within three-quarters of a mile.
These are spots not being used by anyone on weekday nights, according to the Rays' study, but more than a third of those spaces are closed to the public.
The city's analysis did not account for anyone parking more than a half-mile from the new stadium, a common practice at Tropicana Field for well-attended games. The outer edge of the Tropicana Field parking lot is a quarter-mile from the closest entrance.
The city also discounted the private spaces, saying it wants firmer commitments from business owners allowing those spaces to be used for baseball.
"We think you need to have 7,000 spaces in a half-mile of the stadium," said city senior development administrator Rick Mussett. "The question becomes: How can that need be met?"
The amount of available parking differs depending on the day and time of the game. About half of the 81 scheduled home games take place Monday through Thursday nights, with the other half spread over Friday and Saturday nights, and weekday and Sunday afternoons.
The demand also will change if a game is played opposite a major event, like Mainsail Arts Festival or Taste of Pinellas.
The city and Rays officials concede that trying to document the amount of parking that will be available downtown in 2012 is speculative.
Businesses don't seem willing to promise parking to a stadium that may or may not happen. Neither do they want to commit spaces that may or may not be available.
Still, the number of potential parking spaces downtown is likely to increase in the next four years as new projects are built.
Two garages planned
Besides the private development scheduled or contemplated — one developer says it has plans to build a 1,400-space garage at First Avenue South and Seventh Street that the Rays could use — the city already has budgeted $14-million to build its own parking garage.
In today's market, that could mean 1,000 additional spaces, depending on the location.
"By and large, we only see things getting better," said David Wallace, a partner in the firm that conducted the Rays' study, Rummel, Klepper & Kahl of Baltimore, which has done similar studies for stadiums in Baltimore and Washington, D.C.
"If the operation can be deemed to be plausible today, future scenarios with few exceptions tend to be better," said Wallace, whose staff plans to respond to the city's analysis.
The parking analyses do not account for the county's rapid bus transit project, which is supposed to become a viable alternative to get downtown, or a ferry that potentially could bring people to the game from Tampa via the bay.
Baker said Wednesday he likely would need firm commitments from the Rays by August, before the last City Council vote needed to schedule a November referendum.
"The parking and traffic concerns have been a very significant concern of the public," Baker said. "Our recommendations are consistent, I think, with the public's input."
[Last modified: Apr 27, 2008 05:54 PM]
Comments on this article
by Paul
Apr 27, 2008 5:54 PM
'upscale shops'? what?? isn't the Tropicana Block and the former Progress Energy bldg, both just 2 blocks form the proposed new stadium, looking for tentants for retail. Oh that's right. No demand. No mrkt for more upscale in St p
by guy
Apr 27, 2008 2:14 PM
This is where the term "Rube Goldberg" came from, An impossible dream that keeps getting more and more complicated.
by Dana
Apr 27, 2008 2:14 PM
Anyone who goes downtown for First Friday knows how hard it is to find a parking space. That is not nearly as many people. Get real - it is just not possible! We have a beautiful air conditioned stadium to watch baseball in on a hot summer da
by Steve
Apr 27, 2008 2:04 PM
The City should not count parking structures not built to date towards the Ray's parking requirements. Only existing parking facilities can be contracted by the Rays. Future parking is not in today's equation. The City needs to get real,
by Jimmy-jam
Apr 27, 2008 2:02 PM
Use a Park and ride system with light rail transporting fans to the dome. Keep the cars away from congesting downtown and no worries for parking. Besides, cars are so passe.
by Dorothy
Apr 25, 2008 12:41 PM
Rays lie. Kalt lies. There IS new tax money. Their 150 million donation is the rent they already owe us. You can't build little specialty shops and housing on a site that is still contaminated - little kids get sick when you do that kind o
by Frank
Apr 25, 2008 12:40 PM
Ok. If it goes to a vote and everyone wants a new stadium. Does everyone who wants it want to pay for it? If the people who want it do not want to lay out the cash not, who should?
by Jon
Apr 24, 2008 6:27 PM
Why not Toytown, folks? Yes, let the public vote, but no hiding the ball --let them see exactly what their $500 million is buying. Why give public money and debt to some carpetbaggers and freeloaders, and squash the little middle class some
by Robert
Apr 24, 2008 6:27 PM
Wake up call,Rays,parking is an issue. Another issue yet to be addressed: how development proposals fit any sensible city plan. Do we really want to decentralize the downtown with a huge mainly retail mecca one mile from city center? Wake up, Mayor.
by Judith
Apr 24, 2008 6:27 PM
The Mayor and City Council should ask to see alternative Trop site plans that are 95% residential -- retail limited to small neighborhood specialty shops -- which would complement and invigorate, not compete with, the central
by Robert
Apr 24, 2008 6:26 PM
I'm 100% in favor of new stadium and intelligent redevelopment of Trop site with a gorgeous, upscale residential (no big-box retail) area near downtown. I see homes,townhomes,low-rise luxury condos, small shops, parks, o
by Jackson
Apr 24, 2008 6:14 PM
Glen, the Rays will pay for cost overruns. You are deliberately misleading, ignorant, or both. Let the people vote.
by Feliz
Apr 24, 2008 6:01 PM
Parking,no imposible'. Jess like mariel boatlift, they will come: by boat or float, by walk or crawl, by hook or crook. You build it mon, they will come. No worry. Next ano we get Jai alai and juego at the Trop. Adios
by Karen
Apr 24, 2008 6:01 PM
I agree with Dr. Dug: "Find a solution to high taxes and corruption in office first!!" --Then fulfill education, health and other meaningful needs. I don't want a new stadium with higher taxes!
by Dave
Apr 24, 2008 5:59 PM
Hocus-pocus, new waterfront stadium of cards is falling down. Existing Trop site, or the I-275 & Gandy vicinity, for an air-conditioned, removable-roofed FUTURE new baseball stadium. Rays need to become more successful and pa
by Sylvia
Apr 24, 2008 5:59 PM
OK, let me get this straight. Here we have a losing team that can't attract a crowd at their present stadium. So we are being asked to build a new fancy stadium .For what purpose? Parking is the least of their problems! Please stop! My sides
by Sylvia
Apr 24, 2008 1:19 PM
OK, let me get this straight. Here we have a losing team that can't attract a crowd at their present stadium. So we are being asked to build a new fancy stadium .For what purpose? Parking is the least of their problems! Please stop! My sides
by Bill
Apr 24, 2008 1:19 PM
Everyone I know wants the new stadium. Put it on the ballot!
by chris
Apr 24, 2008 1:12 PM
Citizens to Mayor: Build a train system and you won't need the extra 3,500 spaces.
by native
Apr 24, 2008 1:11 PM
why are all the naysayers so against this going to a city wide vote? if the city votes it down so be it, but until then let the city decide, not the vocal minority
by Ken
Apr 24, 2008 11:29 AM
SO the city paid a consultant thousands of $$ and then ignored her conclusions to pander to complainers who have no idea what they're talking about. Brilliant. St. Pete is becoming a city of garages. No more downtown space for ugly garages!!!
by Jimmy-jam
Apr 24, 2008 11:29 AM
Build another 20 story parking garage at Albert Whitted Airport.....problem solved
by Ted
Apr 24, 2008 11:29 AM
Mayor Baker is a lame duck Mayor ; he needs to stay out of the fray !Funny how when the economy went south he got real quiet . Oh , I know all the economic forces were in place before he took office . The man is clueless !St. Pete. has regres
by Dr_Dug
Apr 24, 2008 11:29 AM
All this time spent on something the people don't want...When will our so-called leaders stop this crap! Find a solution to high taxes and corruption in office first!! WE the people speak for St.Pete, not the Bozos in office....UNDERSTAND!!
by Donna
Apr 24, 2008 11:28 AM
What a waste of valuable resources. No one I know wants this new stadium. It would ruin our magnificent waterfront, destroy the flow & peace of our beautiful downtown & inevitably be another burden on taxpayers. Maybe they should move to anot
by Jon
Apr 24, 2008 11:28 AM
As downtown St. Pete residents, my wife and I will ride our bikes or walk to games like many others. Second Ave. S. could be closed for shuttles only on game days with parking near the Trop. No one uses 2nd Ave. S. anyway.
by Phillip
Apr 24, 2008 11:28 AM
The idea that 3/4 mile is too far to walk is just plain ridiculous. I live in between the 2 stadiums and walk almost exactly 3/4 mile to 5 spring games and about 20 regular season games a year. It's an easy 5-10 minute walk. LET THE PEOPLE
by Chuck
Apr 24, 2008 11:28 AM
When We go downtown to have lunch, I do not find an excess of LONG TERM street parking space within walking distance on Central Avenue. Mayor Baker: Tell me how many 4 hour parking places exist, for a ball game, in all of downtown area????????
by Bobby J.
Apr 24, 2008 11:28 AM
Why dun't a consortium build several parking piers or floating parking platforms out into the bay? Or a ferry that potentially could bring people to the game from Tampa via the bay. Solved.
by native
Apr 24, 2008 11:28 AM
parking is a cop out, the grand prix had more attendees then the a sell out game for the Rays will have and they all managed to park somewhere, this is with streets and roads blocked off, put it on the referendum, let the city vote
by bob
Apr 24, 2008 11:27 AM
So boring, and premature, the Vote for is not going to be their. Why doesn't the City do what it did for the 1st stadium, change city by laws to only need city counsel approval.(Then change bilaws back again.) Ownership can sway thos
by Don
Apr 24, 2008 11:27 AM
Take a clue from TIA, only upside down. Build a 2, 3 or 4 level garage and put the stadium on the roof. Has anyone explored this idea?
by Glen
Apr 24, 2008 11:27 AM
Let's not be distracted by the parking. So what if they find more parking? This stadium is about our money; $500,000,000 plus overruns we are giving to New York non-residents for a new playground while our police and fire workers go
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