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Facts are scant as Tampa Bay Rays stadium vote nears

By Howard Troxler, Times Columnist
In print: Sunday, May 25, 2008


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A week from Thursday, the St. Petersburg City Council will face its first deadline for calling a November election on a waterfront baseball stadium for the Tampa Bay Rays.

As the date draws closer, the Rays' spin is that the June 5 meeting is not the drop-dead decision date. It's just a vote to keep the question open. The final decision on an election won't be made until August.

And yet, the upcoming vote means something. It means that in the judgment of the City Council, we know enough to move forward.

So, do we?

Events of this past week raised new questions. On Tuesday, the Pinellas County Commission — which also has the power to kill the deal — had its turn at bat, and with some irritation peppered the Rays with line drives.

Is it fair, commissioners asked, that the county is being asked to contribute $100-million in tourism taxes, while the city pays only $75-million?

Couldn't the county do other good things with that tourism-tax money? The county's tourism board doesn't even meet to talk about it until June 11; is the cart in front of the horse?

Will the plan to sell off Tropicana Field to developers compete with the county's own plans to redevelop its Toytown landfill?

"The more you talk," Commissioner John Morroni told team official Michael Kalt, "the more questions I start writing down here."

His colleague Ken Welch complained that the county has been left "on the outside looking in." Susan Latvala said she was "uncomfortable" at having never been contacted by the city at all and learning key points only from the newspaper.

"I want," she declared, "to look them in the eye."

And Commissioner Robert Stewart, a player in the decision to build Tropicana Field a generation ago, was acerbic about how late in the game the Rays had come to ask for tourism-tax dollars: "It wouldn't have taken a rocket scientist to have figured that out many months ago."

Actually, I was a little surprised, and still do not know whether this was just saber-rattling by the county. It would take an unprecedented amount of guts for the County Commission to kill the deal unilaterally.

Two days later, the City Council held a workshop and public hearing (with a strong majority of speakers in opposition) and sounded its own skeptical note. In particular, one of the questions was my favorite — is this deal supposed to pay for itself, or not?

Remember, that's part of the sales pitch. We sell off Tropicana Field to developers, and all the good stuff that gets built there will generate taxes that help pay for the stadium. But neither the Rays nor the potential developers have been willing to guarantee anything.

We do not know what kind of deal the city is making with the Tropicana developers. We do not know the most basic outline of the deal to come between the city and the Rays for construction, for stadium management, for naming rights.

Hey, I'm a Rays fan. I'm open to the stadium concept and think it could be great for downtown. What I said last Sunday still goes — show that the dollars work, and that's at least enough to keep moving forward.

But we don't have that. Only the request to keep saying yes now, and promises to figure out the rest later.

At what point should the county or the city say no?



[Last modified: May 29, 2008 11:01 AM]



Comments on this article
by Richy May 27, 2008 2:25 PM
Charles, The fact that most of us don't go to games is even more reason to not build a stadium. I don't want one penny of my tax money going to baseball, which is one of the most boring activities I can think of. We have a good multi-use stadium now!
by john May 27, 2008 10:36 AM
All you people complaining about the heat the rays said there would be 13 days games (Sunday) the rest would be night, so shut-up and it will be covered.
by Bob May 26, 2008 5:52 PM
We can't buy school books, can't pay teachers, police, firemen enough. Millions of people loosing their homes. And these whining babys can't play where they are? They don't have enough attendence to fill a high school stadium. SAVE OUR WATERFRONT !!
by Mike May 26, 2008 2:18 PM
$450 million for new sports facility? Sounds like alot of money for Concrete,steel and infastructure. The owners need to break down the costs for the various parts of this project.
by Laurie May 26, 2008 2:17 PM
I know my family and I won't attend any more baseball games if the facility isn't climate controlled. Who is going to be enjoying the waterfront while watching a game? The heat, rain, humidity. I don't go to Raymond James in inclement weather.
by Charles May 26, 2008 12:07 PM
Most of these people who leave these bonehead comments don't even go to the games. If you don't go to games, like the Rays or like baseball, please complain somewhere else about something else.
by Nelson May 26, 2008 12:07 PM
I think a new stadium would be fantastic. Have you seen pictures? Please compare to the Trop. and it's an easy answer. IT WILL HELP CLEAN UP DOWNTOWN ST. PETE! Will you really feel your taxes go up with a new stadium? Sheesh!! Go rays!
by Dennis May 26, 2008 12:07 PM
St Louis lost the NFL Cardinals over 10 million dollars, they spent 400 Million+ to get the Rams. If it goes, it wont come back for less than 450 Million NEW dollars. Stu wants to put in 150 Million of his own.
by Dennis May 26, 2008 12:06 PM
So many people, so few facts, here is a few falsehoods listed in these comments. Rainouts, environmental impact, debt(no more than we are already on the hook for), noise!!! if you want quiet, move to the sticks! get your facts then, type comments
by josh May 26, 2008 11:53 AM
all you old people need to move back north and shut up, and whoever said the rays have never been over 500 they are now 10 games over 500 read a newspaper
by Julie Whitney May 26, 2008 11:20 AM
As a St. Pete native and Tampa resident, I say build the stadium again where it is, don't mess with the waterfront and ruining our environmental waters. Improve Al Lang field to historic stadium status and use for city + state playoffs, etc!
by Debra May 26, 2008 11:16 AM
Red Tide, storms, heat, mosquitos, drunken drivers, rain outs, admission, debt, just a few reasons NOT to do it! It may be cheaper to drill for oil!
by Scorps May 26, 2008 11:15 AM
It is too hot and humid for baseball outdoors. In my mind the Trop is still servicable and it has A/C. Come up with a climate controlled solution. If the Rays left would very many notice? Or really care? They haven't improved my standard of living.
by Tim May 26, 2008 11:10 AM
Let's wait til after the november election. Then maybe Latvala won't have a chance to look anybody in the eye. If they handle this as well as buying a piece of swampland, we're in trouble.
by PS May 26, 2008 10:56 AM
It's time for the council to shut down this "process." It's clear that the Rays are unable, unwilling to provide anymore details of their financing plan, so why are we dragging this out? Stop it now and let's get on with the city's real business!
by Howard May 26, 2008 10:56 AM
The new stadium is a trade down. No A/C, incovenient parking, increased expense to city and county, 3 hour game in 90 + weather for general seating, while ownership sits in A/C sky boxes. Ownership and city leadership are idiots. And we are the fools
by GetReal May 26, 2008 10:31 AM
The same people who voted to keep Albert Whitted airport are the same who don't want the new stadium. Albert Whitted doesn't do anything for the general population of this city and is a complete waste of waterfront space.
by GetReal May 26, 2008 10:30 AM
The choice is simple. You will either get a new downtown stadium that creates money and jobs OR the location will be turned into another park and the City will "relocate" the homeless from Williams Park to the location. Live by new stadium OR BUMS
by Amy May 26, 2008 10:01 AM
One stadium was built, why another? The Rays should show they can win a couple of years in a row before they want new digs. The Marlins have 2 world championships. The Rays haven't reached 500 - ever.
by Amy May 26, 2008 10:01 AM
I don't understand why our elected officials are still discussing putting a new stadium on our waterfront. It is too costly, too noisy, too much traffic downtown, too much environmental impact. Just say No!!
by Harry May 26, 2008 8:13 AM
If Albert Whitted had been forced into the same analysis, that useless, under-utilized airport would no longer exist.
by Chip May 26, 2008 8:09 AM
It's time to stop the charade and posturing. Very few people want this stadium in the place purposed. Hopefully the next sales pitch will be one not be perceived as deceptive and greedy. They took spring training and want Al Lang too? Just say no.
by Joyce May 26, 2008 8:08 AM
The waterfront stadium will be left empty after a few years because of the heat, humidity and traffic difficulties. No big stores will want to locate at the Tropicana site because of the low and moderate income population around it.
by Dan May 26, 2008 8:08 AM
It is amazing to me that government does any of the publice work in secret. It is our money and everythng should be open and above board. This is a big mistake and not needed. It it a basic requirement that all elected officials are corrupt.
by ENough May 26, 2008 8:06 AM
So when will Tricky Rick reveal his true hand? WHO will make money on this deal? HOW can the city afford this, when they are cutting essential staff and services, especially for the arts and parks? WHAT is their real motivation? WHY now?
by Steven May 25, 2008 12:34 PM
Hey Devil Rays! Please move to another city and leave us alone!!!
by Frank May 25, 2008 11:42 AM
I'll bet Mayor Baker assured ownership that a new stadium would be a done deal when they bought the team. This is a personal embarassment to Baker.
by Mark May 25, 2008 11:42 AM
My big concern for a new stadium is the fact nobody will go because it will be to hot!!
by Richard May 25, 2008 11:16 AM
Perhaps someone should review Miller Park in Milwaukee. Similar situation a few years ago. The Rays are winning so, build it and they will come (fans, that is). A big issue is parking and residences in the area as now proposed.
by tammy May 25, 2008 11:12 AM
big business using tax dollars to make a profit. we workers just are a tool (suckers) for them to get rich. dontcha know?
by Aaron May 25, 2008 11:12 AM
My question is this. If we wanted PARKS downtown, why didnt we fight this hard to remve that stupid Airport. It makes no money for the majority of the citizens. I cant beleive I stay in a city that perfers a Airport over a stadium.
by aaron May 25, 2008 11:11 AM
It would be a shame to suffer with the Rays during those losing seasons only to have OUR team move somewhere else and win a WS. St. Pete and Pinellas county dont act like we dont need the Rays. We do. Please vote yes for quality of life reasons
by Bland May 25, 2008 11:11 AM
Great game at the Trop last night. Nice crowd as well. Sure wish I had been outside in the heat last night by the Bay in our new stadium instead. NOT. Howard there will never be a guarantee. It is on the taxpayers, including Pinellas County.
by je May 25, 2008 11:11 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!
by Jon M May 25, 2008 11:11 AM
It seems to have been the same problem all along - lots of sizzle, no steak, just glossy pictures on the menu. "Trust us" from the owners is not much comfort for folks looking at maybe $400 million in public subsidy to profitable private business.
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