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Florida's payroll sees some triple-dip

By Lucy Morgan, Times Senior Correspondent
In print: Sunday, March 23, 2008


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TALLAHASSEE — Forget double-dipping. Florida has 131 triple-dippers.

These state employees are drawing not one but two pensions and are back on the job, receiving a salary and working toward a third pension.

In Florida, there is no limit on the number of pensions a person can receive.

The state has made it far too easy to "game the system,'' according to a national expert on state pension funds.

Some states have made it illegal to collect a pension and return to work at the same job and salary. Some states have made it illegal to take any public sector job in the same retirement system without forfeiting retirement benefits.

Florida has no such constraints. More than 1,200 former state employees collect two or more pensions; an additional 131 employees collect at least two pensions and a salary.

"It's disheartening to see cases like this,'' said Keith Brainard, director of research for the National Association of State Retirement Administrators.

"The public sees this as favoring a few when there are hundreds of thousands of people in Florida who are not gaming the system, and just a small number taking advantage of it.''

Don't expect the law to change.

"It's going to be a bit of an uphill battle to get anything done, I'm afraid,'' said Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey, the sponsor of a bill that would stop double-dipping by elected officials.

"Apparently there are more double-dippers in the Legislature than I thought. What a mess.''

• • •

The triple-dippers include school principals, teachers, sheriff's deputies, health department employees, deputy clerks of the court and other public employees from dozens of Florida counties.

Because of the push to keep teachers on the job, school boards top the charts of double- and triple-dippers. The agency, by far, with the most multiple dippers on its payroll is the Miami-Dade County school board, with 27 triple-dippers and 835 double-dippers.

Many multiple-dippers are low-ranking state employees who retired years ago when pensions were low, and they don't make much money now. Some only work part-time or handle critical jobs while replacements are sought. Many are teachers who have been urged to stick around and help out schools facing a teacher shortage.

But questions surround the more than 200 elected officials and 200 senior managers who have quietly "retired'' and continue working. Many remain in the same job where they earned their pension.

Word of the multiple-dippers comes as the state faces its most serious budget crisis in decades and some state employees are worried about losing their jobs.

Dozens of them have contacted the St. Petersburg Times saying they fear losing their jobs to budget cuts while senior management employees with political connections are allowed to remain.

"Why not tell these people who are drawing retirement to step aside for people who still need jobs?'' asked a Department of Corrections employee who said she was too afraid to allow her name to be used.

That was supposed to be the idea behind Florida's system: encourage long-term employees to retire and make room for younger, lower-paid employees to move up the ladder.

Legislators amended the law to help a fellow legislator who was trying to collect a pension he had earned prior to his election to the Legislature. But it opened the door for other elected officials to double-dip and remain on the job.

Those who enrolled in the Deferred Retirement Option Program — or DROP — after July 1, 2002, have to take a month off work and can then return at full salary. Regular employees also must forfeit their first year's retirement checks and work a limited number of hours.

Because they must get special permission from supervisors to return to the job, they can be resented by fellow employees who are denied the privilege of returning to work or prevented from moving up the ladder.

Double-dippers come in all shapes and sizes. Many earn small salaries, but more than 170 take home more than $100,000 a year on top of retirement benefits as high as $14,000 a month. Upon "retirement,'' many collect lump-sum DROP payments that can reach hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Those who sign up for DROP promise to retire in five years but, under the law, can return to work.

"It takes special approval for you to come back,'' said Doug Martin, spokesman for the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, AFL-CIO. "It is really disgusting where people want to get this big DROP payment and keep on working. Because it takes special approval, the higher-ups get to do it.

"They are making a pretty good living off of the public.''

• • •

The issue of double-dipping was at the heart of an episode of Law & Order: Criminal Intent, involving the murder of a city auditor who was investigating double-dipping police officers.

States around the country are trying to pass laws to prevent double-dipping, with New York passing some of the toughest.

Public employees who retire and return to government work there must forfeit their pensions during the time they receive a salary, unless a waiver is granted that allows the employee to make up to $30,000 in salary for a limited time. Employees who return to work are not allowed to participate in the state pension fund a second time.

Many states limit the circumstances under which returning retirees can work by limiting the hours they can spend on the job or the amount of money they can earn from a former employer to $15,000 or $20,000 a year.

Teachers who retire in Arizona go to work for a private company called SmartSchoolsPlus and go right back to teaching, sometimes in the same position they left, but working for a private company that allows them to collect a salary and a pension.

Brainard, the national expert on state retirement systems, says Florida's no-holds-barred system is discouraging. With many private businesses eliminating pension plans in favor of deferred compensation programs, a state that allows some employees to collect multiple pensions can sour Florida citizens on public pension plans.

Changing the law won't be easy, because some lawmakers themselves profit from the system. Last year, Sen. Bill Posey, R-Rockledge, tried to limit benefits with a bill that would have prohibited employees from being rehired by the same agency.

"I didn't know how bad the problem was,'' Posey recalled. "I'm shocked to find out how widespread this is. I thought it was unusual. I didn't get very far with it. I got no traction and couldn't even find a House sponsor.''

Rep. Frank Attkisson, R-Kissimmee, chairman of the House Council on Government Efficiency, says the House is looking at the issue now. "Everyone is saying, 'Frank, do something,' '' he said.

"It is obvious we have to do something. The idea that elected officials can retire, take a chunk of change and keep going is just appalling.''

Lucy Morgan can be reached at lmorgan@sptimes.com or (850) 224-7263.



[Last modified: Mar 26, 2008 09:01 AM]



Comments on this article
by Candi Mar 26, 2008 9:01 AM
The State job's in MI. run from 16.00 an hour to 26.00 an hour. if the min. wage is 7 something an hour how are they supose to live on that? It is greedy to have a pension and must be drawing S.S. on top of it and want more. Not fair at all.
by Candi Mar 26, 2008 9:00 AM
The State job's have pension's. But this retiring and being able to go back to the same job is a shame. They get enough to live well on there pension's. So let some one else that has passed the exam for the State get the job. Same went
by Candi Mar 26, 2008 8:59 AM
My daughter took the State exam 3 year's ago. passed with flying color's can apply for 11 different job's. And no opening's for her in Mich. Some job's posted say have had to work for the State before. How is that fair. The o
by Candi Mar 26, 2008 8:59 AM
If they retired from the State why do they need to come back to work? How about the young person that has passed the exam for the State? He or she need's the job to raise there familie's. Sound's like GREED to me. That's why alot
by Dave Mar 26, 2008 8:57 AM
I really don't see what all the excitement is about. DROP plans have been around for years, most are benefits that can be found described online. It's a pension product that costs the public little to nothing. Where is the surprise?
by Rick Mar 26, 2008 8:55 AM
Government jobs pay less than private sector, but the trade off is retirement and health benefits. Sorry to hear the private sectors types didn't think about that earlier in life, but taking away public servants only real perk now is way out of
by Jason Mar 25, 2008 8:40 PM
Then if that is the case Sal, Government should become profit oriented, same as private business. And when a teacher with 30 years service makes 49% of salary when retired, defined benefits are not that great.
by Sal Mar 25, 2008 5:15 PM
Defined benefits are great Jason, but since the private sector has abandoned them we feel government should too!
by Jason Mar 25, 2008 4:04 PM
401k's are nothing more than a greedy company reducing risk to profit. Defined benefit retirements have worked for years, not a new concept.
by Celeste Mar 25, 2008 2:24 PM
TIME OUT!!!!! We can't get a decent raise and positions are being cut and all of this double and triple dipping going on. With enough pressure on our legislators something can be done. This is not acceptable during this budget crisis. Fix it!
by Jen Mar 25, 2008 1:53 PM
Pension? What's a pension? Who has one? Are you kidding me? All real working class people have now is a crappy 401k. Make govt. employees have the same. Give me a break!
by Sue Mar 25, 2008 1:34 PM
Pensions are for retirement, not when you are gainfully employed on a large salary. Time for them to retire and move aside. Let someone else get up the ladder.
by Mike Mar 25, 2008 1:34 PM
It's not "gaming the system" if the law allows it. There is no reason not to double dip if you're elibible to do so.
by Diane Mar 25, 2008 1:06 PM
we need to elect offical like we select a jury, our piers. Most politicians can't feel our pain because they are not on the same playing field as we are financially. They don't know the meaning of living from pay check to pay check. We need
by Ruth Mar 25, 2008 1:04 PM
Just another story about the Rich getting Richer & asking the Rich to stop it!!!
by Sal Mar 25, 2008 12:57 PM
Count me in on the "citizens soured on state and local pension plans". Government employees should have simple 401K's just like the rest of us. No hand outs, save for retirement yourself. That is what is expected for the rest of us!
by Rick Mar 25, 2008 12:56 PM
I just wish I had thought of this years ago for myself??? Can you imagine; three checks for an average of 70K a year for each check? Not bad for smooz'n everyone. We allowed it folks we elected these greedy people.
by Leon Mar 25, 2008 12:55 PM
If you contribute to a 401K and your employers adds to it, you then retire at say age 50, isn't then ok to work for someone else and get a second pension? The "have nots" always complain...go to work and make a difference in your life
by James Mar 25, 2008 10:16 AM
I don't see a problem with this. Would it be better to give them a pension and have them sit around and not contribute or would it make more sense to have them collect a pension and a salary and continue to work? I would prefer the latter.
by Richard Mar 25, 2008 10:15 AM
Want change, Vote the double dippers out of office but make sure the new electees are not eligble to double dip.
by Dave Mar 24, 2008 8:39 PM
Sounds like Hugh has his hand in the cookie jar.
by Jon Mar 24, 2008 6:32 PM
Pensions for gov't employees are way way out of wack with reality, because politicians only worry about today and seldom worry about tomorrows cost. Local and state gov'ts can not afford such overt "gaming" of the system,
by Annie Mar 24, 2008 4:18 PM
This must be dealt with immediately. There must be some accountability because it should be illegal. Not all retirees get to be reemployed after DROP. It is just who you know and this is not fair. The FRS must be improved to get rid of this.
by Sarah Mar 24, 2008 4:16 PM
I am so disgusted by this abuse of power and government. Of course no one will sponsor any legislation - they all have their hands in the pot too! Meanwhile middle-class floridians can't pay their mortgages and must choose between groc
by Albert Mar 24, 2008 1:49 PM
Now all know why we are reluctant to listen to excuses and the rip offs we call state employees.
by Deanna Mar 24, 2008 1:38 PM
My mother is an Army retiree of 26 years.There is no way she could afford to live off of her pension alone, so she works fulltime in the civilian world.Society today with all it's taxing/rate hikes make it impossible for anyone to live on her pe
by Hugh Mar 24, 2008 1:35 PM
THE ISSUE SHOULD BE TO HIRE THE MOST COMPETENT AND MOST QUALIFIED EMPLOYEE FOR THE JOB, REGARDLESS OF THE NUMBER OF PENSIONS S/HE MAY HAVE.
by chris Mar 24, 2008 1:34 PM
Do we also want to restrict people in the military from taking a second career? How about people who are bought out of one career and start another one? As I see it, they earned the pension and it is theirs no matter how many second careers taken.
by Ken Mar 24, 2008 1:34 PM
At least now you are finally admitting that many of the "double dippers" are just barely getting by - FL spends the least per employee in many ways - Now the "triple dippers" - that's a real story.
by Annette Mar 24, 2008 1:33 PM
Hey, Charlie...when are you going to take charge of this disaster? Oh, that's right...you're too busy with your personal life! Jerk!
by Patty Mar 24, 2008 1:33 PM
Don't expect the law to change? That's the answer? I think FL needs ALL new legislators. Please remember this repsonse next time you vote. Let's make this an election issue. Where are you Charlie? Double dipping?
by Jenny Mar 24, 2008 1:30 PM
I don't understand what the issue is. If a person retires and goes back to work, why wouldn't they be entitled to all the benefits other's receive? From what I've heard, state employees aren't paid that well to begin with.
by Jerry Mar 24, 2008 1:21 PM
I live on less than $10,000 a year and I do pay taxes. I think it is a tremendous abuse of the system that allows people to keep coming back to the same feed trough and getting more. Unite people. Lets stop this double and triple abuse. Go figure.
by JM Mar 24, 2008 1:21 PM
Now we know why there are budget problems.But let's lay off the middle class workers so we can pay these outragious pensions.Why don't we fix the loop hole.But Charlie is too busy for that.
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