Double-dippers prevail - St. Petersburg Times

TALLAHASSEE — Despite public outrage, the odds that the Legislature will crack down on "double-dipping" state employees looked highly unlikely Thursday after a lengthy, heated debate in the Florida Senate.

Senators initially rejected and then barely resuscitated a measure that would have stopped nearly all retired state pensioners from returning to their job for the state, collecting both a pension and a paycheck.

"You can't have both, ladies and gentlemen," the measure's sponsor, Sen. Mike Fasano, R-New Port Richey, told his colleagues. "The taxpayers can't afford both, and they shouldn't have to pay for both."

But most senators argued against the plan, questioning whether it was wise to limit individuals' potential future contribution to state government.

Sen. Arthenia Joyner, D-Tampa, argued that under Fasano's measure, if she were a retired school principal, she couldn't run for school board and collect a salary that paid more than $30,000.

"You're telling me, I can't get paid for it, and I can't receive the money I earned while I served," Joyner said.

Fasano's measure also would have prohibited any state retirees from going back to work in a different state job that paid them more than $30,000 annually while they also collected retirement benefits.

Among those potentially affected: six senators who are collecting retirement benefits as well as legislative salaries slightly above the cap, at $31,000.

First, senators voted to strip off the $30,000 cap — as long as a retiree would return to a different job, they could still be a double-dipper. But then the senators killed the entire idea with a voice vote and rejected an effort to have individual votes recorded.

Five minutes later, senators took the unusual step to agree to revive the dead measure, referring the issue back to a committee. Sen. Jim King, R-Jacksonville, said that senators were confused and didn't realize they had killed the issue entirely.

The floor maneuver was part of Fasano's strategy to try to get the idea before the entire Senate. He has filed a bill addressing the "double dipping" issue, but that bill is moving slowly and has many committee stops, meaning it would have been unlikely to get to the Senate floor before the end of the session May 2.

Fasano took a short cut by adding the amendment to a noncontroversial retirement bill that had already been vetted, making it more likely that the full Legislature will have to vote on the issue.

A St. Petersburg Times investigation has found more than 8,000 state employees are collecting a pension and a paycheck for a full-time job, with their total salaries topping more than $300-million.

Many multiple-dippers are low-ranking state employees who retired years ago when pensions were low, and they don't make much money now. Some only work part-time or handle critical jobs while replacements are sought. Many are teachers who have been urged to stick around and help out schools facing a teacher shortage.

But questions surround the more than 200 elected officials and 200 senior managers who have quietly "retired'' and continue working, sometimes drawing six-figure salaries on top of lucrative pension payments. Many remain in the same job where they earned their pension.

Fasano pointed out that during a bad budget year, the state could use that extra $300-million in salaries to help offset drastic budget cuts.

However, Sen. J.D. Alexander, R-Lake Wales, said such a measure could also prevent the state from dragging some employees out of retirement who may have specialized or technical expertise that the state can't duplicate.

"As well-meaning as it is,'' Alexander said, "this amendment could have the unintended consequences of keeping the state from being able to get essential services."

Times senior correspondent Lucy Morgan contributed to this report. Jennifer Liberto can be reached at (850) 224-7263 or jliberto@sptimes.com.

Comments on this article

by Mike	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
What a systematic legislative way of stealing, and some of these people stealing (judges) are sitting in judgment of others who are stealing. What a fiasco!

by Bob-E	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
The problem with this is if there's nobody with the "expertise" to do the job, how is there ever going to be anybody trained to do the job?? Will that person keep working for the next 250 years? The point is to allow the opportunity fo

by Disgusted	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
This is yet another example of the unmitigated greed that infects our culture at all levels. Those who serve the public should have the public good as their first concern. However,once conferred a government benefit cannot be withdrawn (e.g.,

by chris	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
Is there anyone else who can vote on this besides the ones who stand to profit the most from it? Maybe its just me

by Felix	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
If someone retires and receives a pension, wouldn't they have to pay someone else who is not reired to do the job? How is this saving money?

by Dionysis	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
In effect, your position is that once you retire you cannot run for public office because you might win? No wonder your rag is losing subscribers.

by state worker	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
Jerry, you anger is misplaced. State workers have not had a raise in more than 3 years - we've gotten $1000 bonuses - I'm betting you'd be mad with your employer if you only received $1000/year - on top of being the low

by Stu	Apr 7, 2008 8:44 AM
Someone needs to look at the administration at USF. Several double dippers are in high positions.

by Al	Apr 7, 2008 8:43 AM
Why are the Senators never mentioned around election time as it relates to the nonsense they are involved in? Remind the people who/or why they may not wish to re-elect? We continue to elect the same incompedent people time after time?

by Bill	Apr 7, 2008 8:43 AM
Sen. Fasano has a GREAT idea in his bill on double dipping. Most civil servants do NOT quailify for the oppertunaty to double dip. It should be STOPPED NOW.

by ME	Apr 7, 2008 8:43 AM
THANK GOD SOMEONE IS FINNALLY STOPPING THEM GREEDY PEOPLE!! LET SOMEONE ELSE HAVE A JOB!! THEY SHOULD FIRE ALL THE FREELOADERS IN TALAHASSEE AND WASHINGTON AND LET REAL PEOPLE HAVE JOBS, AND LET THE BIGSHOTS SEE WHAT LIVING ON $14,000.00 A YR GETS!

by steve	Apr 7, 2008 8:43 AM
Jerry , Quit hatin, Right you dont get social security in many of these plans so thats saves taxpayers money. I dont see much outrage here, the times is trying but it is obvious their trying to spin. How many times employees are double dipping?

by Marta	Apr 7, 2008 8:43 AM
I have no problem with people who have retired going back to work, this is a right. Working is not a luxury. However, when returning to the same institution after retiring, you should start at the beginning salary and not at your ending one.

by No Raise Again This Year	Apr 7, 2008 8:43 AM
My dept will have 1 of our frozen positions advertised soon. It entails dealing with angry desperate people for nearly $12.50 an hour. you will be doing the work of 4. you won't get a raise for years in a row. It is worth it though. Isn't i

by jeff	Apr 5, 2008 2:23 PM
so your retired at 45 and cant live on 5k/mo.go to iraq!the pays great.

by Stan	Apr 5, 2008 2:23 PM
Wake up Hernando county, we have several Constitutional officers (Nugent/ Nicolai) who are in the DROP program and still earning 100k plus salaries and benefits. Get gone already!

by Sandy	Apr 5, 2008 2:22 PM
As a county worker, I agree that if you retire from the county, and work somwhere else you are entitled, but if you go back to the county, then you should no longer be considered retired.

by Turner	Apr 5, 2008 2:21 PM
Keep it up Rhodes, you will have Mayfield sitting back in Indian River in no time. Keep making promises you cant keep to your loyal backstabbers.

by Hooch	Apr 5, 2008 2:21 PM
Look at the deadwood loading down worker bees, Terry Rhodes who is in DROP and trying to get Mayfield elected has promised all her minions such a winfall. Pay attention to your boyfriend Rhodes.

by Disgustedin StPete	Apr 5, 2008 2:19 PM
Hiassen is right, FL is corruption all the way. There is no reason people could not return to state work-just forgo the pension while they make 6 figures. The senators are being disingenous to pretend that is impossible.

by ken	Apr 5, 2008 2:19 PM
a voice vote?? why? we elected them and they dont want us to know how they vote. every vote should be recorded they work for us. these are the chums running this state/country better wake up people.

by Jerry	Apr 4, 2008 4:23 PM
Runaway government employee pension plans are going to bankrupp Floida soon. Public employees have voted each other ever higher and higher salaries and pension benefits. Taxpavers feel helpless to stop them. I am way beyond angry. Wake up taxpayers

by steve	Apr 4, 2008 4:23 PM
Is alimony,child support and a job triple dipping? This is using a sensational word by the Times, Misleading. Doing away with the drop will cost money, will save nothing. 300 million is 35k each, will cost more than that to replace those workers.

by Jerry	Apr 4, 2008 4:23 PM
Mary says the average state employee only makes $38K a year so they have to work. The most I made in a year when I worked was 18K a year. I live on $13K now. Course people my age don't have the same sence of entitlement that Mary does. WE do wit

by Almost Retired	Apr 4, 2008 4:22 PM
Most state employees retire at less than half their salary. They need to become re-employed just to pay their health insurance- Complain all you want about the ones making $200K-but the vast majority of double dippers are barely making

by Wes	Apr 4, 2008 4:22 PM
Probation officers aren't in trouble, the jails are full and the economy is going to turn basically good people bad who will turn to stealing and stuff to feed the family. Probation Officers are going to get very busy, Kaching, Kaching, Kaching!

by jean	Apr 4, 2008 4:22 PM
You want to stop it? You have to stop voting for these people. Every one of the parasites in TALLAHASSEE can be IMPEACHED. THAT WILL SEND A MESSAGE LOUD AND CLEAR TO THE ELECTED OFFICIAL!!! The problem is we are a country of sheep. Hell look at Hill

by Probation Ofc	Apr 4, 2008 12:21 PM
The same legislature wants to lay of over 600 probation officers and 1500 prison gaurds. Obviously they want to free up more money for themselves. People the only way to end this is to VOTE!!!!! NOW!!!!!

by Chauncy	Apr 4, 2008 12:21 PM
If you retire from a private job and go to work for the government, does the private company have the right to take away your retirement? No. The problem is the ones that leave and return to the same exact job.

by Jim	Apr 4, 2008 12:16 PM
Before commenting about WHAT double dipping is, learn the facts. It's not about retired military getting elected. It IS about state workers "retiring" and returning to state employment in essentially the SAME job they "retired

by JR	Apr 4, 2008 12:16 PM
I don't mind if people retire from one job and take a new one. But when you "retire" for a month and noone even knew about it like the judge covered earlier, and now they are getting pension + pay and are still in the same job all

by Sleepy	Apr 4, 2008 12:15 PM
I was forced to retire from the military and my pension comes from the federal govt. not the state of Fla. DO NOT ASK ME TO DELAY MY STEP INCREASE AS A TEACHER IN PASCO. WILL NOT HAPPEN. fIND THE MONEY SOEWHERE ELSE.

by Crikey	Apr 4, 2008 12:15 PM
Isn't Lucy Morgan (the original reporter) herself a double dipper? She retired from the Times last year, I saw the stories on her at the time. Is the Times paying her for this work? Except for the 6-figure folks, I see what's

by web	Apr 4, 2008 12:13 PM
No wonder our taxes are so high. This is an outrage.

by chris	Apr 4, 2008 12:12 PM
I agree with Steve. If a person is retired from IBM, or Boeing, or any other private company, should they be required to give up their retirement? If not, then why should a government retiree?